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Thread: Australian Army 2011 onwards

  1. #101

    The radar goes on most 6x6/8x8 trucks, armoured or not.

    I'd think it was an early delivery and makes sense in the aspect of standardised fleet.

  2. #102

    Quote Originally Posted by buglerbilly View Post
    The radar goes on most 6x6/8x8 trucks, armoured or not.

    I'd think it was an early delivery and makes sense in the aspect of standardised fleet.
    No the AMB radar MAN trucks have nothing to do with LAND 121. They were just what Saab offered to carry the radar modules as they use in Sweden for similar roles.

  3. #103

    ... Either way .. nothing like a bit of OzCam to make a great looking truck look Shit Hot !
    The sooner we get our hands on trucks with PLS capability the better .. AMB radar one day, Fuel Tanker the next day, Tip Truck the next .. etc. etc.

  4. #104

    Quote Originally Posted by Gubler, A. View Post
    No the AMB radar MAN trucks have nothing to do with LAND 121. They were just what Saab offered to carry the radar modules as they use in Sweden for similar roles.
    Very fortunate choice then wasn't it.............

  5. #105

    Defence crews forced to sit on eskies during chopper flights

    Date September 10, 2012 113 reading now

    Rory Callinan

    EXCLUSIVE


    Makeshift ... an esky onboard a Chinook helicopter. Photo: John Hunter Farrell

    AUSTRALIAN troops are flying into battle perched on eskies in ageing helicopters with a computer glitch that makes the aircraft suddenly stand on their nose - a flaw already blamed for killing one Digger and injuring five others.

    Expert evidence to a Defence Department commission of inquiry into the fatal accident has revealed that wild oscillations have occurred in Chinook CH-47 D medium-lift helicopters at least four times. The evidence also indicates how the computer problem has been fixed in the subsequent F-model of the helicopter, a variant that the federal government had originally promised to have in service by last year.

    The Herald has learnt the D-model helicopters are being flown with makeshift seats for door gunners jury-rigged from eskies, in contrast to proper crash seats used in the F-model.

    The Herald has obtained photos taken this year of gunners in Afghanistan sitting on orange, barrel-shaped drink coolers that have been painted black and have a seat cushion attached to the top.

    The stability issues were revealed by a top aeronautical engineer from the Defence Science and Technology Organisation (DSTO) during his evidence last month to an inquiry into the death of Lieutenant Marcus Case, 26.

    Lieutenant Case was killed in Afghanistan on May 30 last year when the D-model Chinook he was in began ''porpoising'', tilting and rising violently to the point where the aircraft was pointing down at a 110-degree angle, causing it to crash, roll and catch fire.

    He had been riding on the helicopter's rear ramp. He was flung out of the aircraft and left hanging attached to a safety strap just before the crash. Five crew were injured.

    The inquiry into his death heard evidence from a DSTO scientist, Rhys Lehmann, who had investigated the causes of the crash and found problems with the helicopter's analog advanced flight control system, which helps pilots fly the aircraft.

    Mr Lehmann found the flight control system was prone to becoming overloaded if the helicopter hit turbulence in Afghanistan's high altitude conditions, causing it to ''porpoise'' or suffer ''pitch oscillation'' involving increasingly violent tilting and rising of the nose. Mr Lehmann told the inquiry the D-model's analog flight control system was replaced in the F-model with a digital system that ''reduced, if not eliminated, the problem''.

    He confirmed there had been three later occasions where the D-class aircraft had started to oscillate - on July 28, September 9 and September 13 last year - but on these occasions pilots regained control.

    A grounding of the helicopters last September was scrapped within a month, with Defence saying an investigation had found no issues with the flight control system.

    At the time, Defence said the army operated five D-type Chinooks - two in Afghanistan, one in Papua New Guinea, one on Horn Island in Queensland and one in Townsville where the fleet is based.

    Last week Defence said the army had taken significant steps to ensure crews were well prepared to deal with all eventualities. ''Minor adjustments have been made to how the aircraft is operated in Afghanistan. However, these have not had any detrimental impact on the conduct of operations,'' a spokesman said.

    He confirmed that in the D-class model, door gunners were riding on eskies and said there was no suitable air crew seat that allowed adequate access to and control of either the left or right gun, and that gunners were tethered to the aircraft by a safety strap.

    The D-class fleet was to be upgraded to the F-model by last year, according to a statement in 2007 by the then defence minister Brendan Nelson. But in February 2010, the then defence minister, John Faulkner, announced the F-model would not enter service until 2014.

    The Defence spokesman said it had not been feasible to replace the D-model with the F-model because of the need to withdraw the D-model from operation while the conversion occurred.

    ''This would have removed Australia's contribution to the rotary-wing effort in Afghanistan and had a potential adverse impact on other ADF forces, including aeromedical evacuation,'' he said.

    Defence refused to speculate on whether Lieutenant Case's death could have been prevented by buying the newer model.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...#ixzz260ssERKb

  6. #106

    Quote Originally Posted by buglerbilly View Post
    Defence crews forced to sit on eskies during chopper flights



    The D-class fleet was to be upgraded to the F-model by last year, according to a statement in 2007 by the then defence minister Brendan Nelson. But in February 2010, the then defence minister, John Faulkner, announced the F-model would not enter service until 2014.

    The Defence spokesman said it had not been feasible to replace the D-model with the F-model because of the need to withdraw the D-model from operation while the conversion occurred.

    ''This would have removed Australia's contribution to the rotary-wing effort in Afghanistan and had a potential adverse impact on other ADF forces, including aeromedical evacuation,'' he said.

    Defence refused to speculate on whether Lieutenant Case's death could have been prevented by buying the newer model.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...#ixzz260ssERKb
    Give these D models long enough in Afghanistan and they will remove themselves from service -
    ..............aren't the lives of our serving men and women worth more than some commitment to the rotary winged effort.
    Is a potential adverse impact on other ADF forces more real than the impact on serving Chinook crew?
    [I]The Defence spokesman said it had not been feasible to replace the D-model with the F-model because of the need to withdraw the D-model from operation while the conversion occurred.[/I]
    So there will never be a replacement by the F model because we can't take the D model from front line duty ......
    what the ...............!!!!

  7. #107

    Quote Originally Posted by Milne Bay View Post
    Give these D models long enough in Afghanistan and they will remove themselves from service -
    ..............aren't the lives of our serving men and women worth more than some commitment to the rotary winged effort.
    Is a potential adverse impact on other ADF forcesmore real than the impact on serving Chinook crew? The Defence spokesman said it had not been feasible to replace the D-model with the F-model because of the need to withdraw the D-model from operation while the conversion occurred.
    So there will never be a replacement by the F model because we can't take the D model from front line duty ......
    what the ...............!!!!
    That attitude is everything that is wrong with Australia's commitment to Afghanistan. There's a very small chance that our helicopters might crash in the middle of a warzone, so the answer is to withdraw the helicopters? A helicopter that everyone else is flying in Afghanistan without complaints? What sort of plan is that? You do realise the alternative to flying our helicopters is people drive to their desination - some 20 year old sapper walks along in front of a convoy hoping today isn't the day he steps on an IED. Other rotary wing options in country include flying on barely maintained, barely airworthy ANA Mi-17s, or flying 45 year old contracted civilian helicopters with zero weapons, zero EWSP and zero safety features. That's hardly a step forward. What do we say to the Yank pilots, who fly through dust storms, snow storms, land in uncleared LZs, fly against orders etc to pick up our wounded?

    War has risks. This is not a big one.

  8. #108

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven22 View Post
    That attitude is everything that is wrong with Australia's commitment to Afghanistan. There's a very small chance that our helicopters might crash in the middle of a warzone, so the answer is to withdraw the helicopters? A helicopter that everyone else is flying in Afghanistan without complaints? What sort of plan is that? You do realise the alternative to flying our helicopters is people drive to their desination - some 20 year old sapper walks along in front of a convoy hoping today isn't the day he steps on an IED. Other rotary wing options in country include flying on barely maintained, barely airworthy ANA Mi-17s, or flying 45 year old contracted civilian helicopters with zero weapons, zero EWSP and zero safety features. That's hardly a step forward. What do we say to the Yank pilots, who fly through dust storms, snow storms, land in uncleared LZs, fly against orders etc to pick up our wounded?

    War has risks. This is not a big one.
    Before I saw your reply my own feelings were similar to MB ,but thanks to your shall we say "on the job inight" I now take a different view, just the same I wish we could provide our troups with somthing better.
    Tiddles

  9. #109

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven22 View Post
    That attitude is everything that is wrong with Australia's commitment to Afghanistan. There's a very small chance that our helicopters might crash in the middle of a warzone, so the answer is to withdraw the helicopters? A helicopter that everyone else is flying in Afghanistan without complaints? What sort of plan is that? You do realise the alternative to flying our helicopters is people drive to their desination - some 20 year old sapper walks along in front of a convoy hoping today isn't the day he steps on an IED. Other rotary wing options in country include flying on barely maintained, barely airworthy ANA Mi-17s, or flying 45 year old contracted civilian helicopters with zero weapons, zero EWSP and zero safety features. That's hardly a step forward. What do we say to the Yank pilots, who fly through dust storms, snow storms, land in uncleared LZs, fly against orders etc to pick up our wounded?

    War has risks. This is not a big one.
    What is the obstacle to getting the F models into theatre?
    That was the point of my post.
    Is it a genuine changeover problem or is it belt tightening by gov't that has pushed it sideways?

  10. #110

    Quote Originally Posted by Milne Bay View Post
    What is the obstacle to getting the F models into theatre?
    That was the point of my post.
    Is it a genuine changeover problem or is it belt tightening by gov't that has pushed it sideways?
    The biggest obstacle is that the -Fs won't be delivered for another couple of years. Hard to send a helicopter into theatre if you don't have one. If the -Fs had of been ordered in 2007, as was planned by the last government, things might have been different however. The issue now as then though is that 5 Avn can't simultaneously transition from the -D model to the -F model and maintain two operational airframes in theatre. By the time the transition happens now the point will likely be moot, as the helos will probably be withdrawn from theatre by then.

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