Dassault-UAE May Have Rafale Deal This Year

[buglerbilly]

By PIERRE TRAN

Published: 3 May 2010 17:16

PARIS - Discussions between France and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) on a prospective next-generation Rafale strike fighter are taking longer than expected but Paris hopes an agreement can be reached on a "common core" aircraft by the end of the year, a French official said May 3.

An agreement reached by "the end of 2010" would open the way for delivery of the more capable Rafale model in 2014 and a flying operational life in 2015, said the official, who is familiar with the negotiations.

The talks on cooperation also mean the French Air Force and Navy could get an advanced F4 version of the Rafale earlier than planned. The F3 standard is just entering service and is expected to fly until 2018-20.

The F4 model would be a true "fifth-generation" aircraft, the official said.

A buyback of the Mirage 2000-9 fleet flown by the UAE has not been agreed with France, but remains a "hypothesis among others," the official said.

There is "a small club" of countries flying the Mirage 2000 into which the UAE could sell the Mirage 2000-9 aircraft, the official said.

The main additional capabilities under discussion with the UAE include an active electronically scanned array radar, advanced electronic warfare and frontal sector optronics gear, and a nine ton thrust version of the M88 engine.

Dassault Aviation is prime contractor for the Rafale. Thales builds the electronic systems, Snecma the M88 engine.

[tiddles]

This possible sale has been talked about quite a bit in other places by the Eurocanard fans in UK & Europe along ad finitum [yawn] with the Brasil & Indian competitions. I made the unfortunate announcement that Dassault had won the Brasil comp some time ago on the old T5C only to be shot down a few days later when President Lula rejigged some comments he had made.While all the Eurocanards will probably have an operational AESA within about the next 5 years which all the present possible buyers want, an upgraded M88 has always seemed to be somthing that all the possibles have wanted.This in spite of the fact that the French AF & Navy being happy with the current thrust & overall aerodynamic performance, it is a little bit like SH critics complaints about current thrust available, however i suspect that the warfighting systems are not yet up to the standard of the SH. I think it was GF that said with the Sh that these days it is - systems,systems,systems,platform in that order that are important, and possible Rafale buyers might be better suited if they thought along these linesGoing on past sales performance I suspect that France will somehow find a way to stuff it up, ie trying to link it to ship & tank sales as they have before.
Tiddles

[buglerbilly]

This is the full article............

UAE May Fund Next-Gen Rafale

Wants More Powerful Engine, AESA Radar

By ANDREW CHUTER and PIERRE TRAN

Published: 3 May 2010


Improved Version? Upgrades involved in the French-UAE negotiations would take the Rafale to the next level, an Arabian Gulf source said. (DASSAULT AVIATION)

LONDON and PARIS - The United Arab Emirates and France are discussing a proposed joint effort to develop a more capable, new-generation Dassault Rafale strike fighter, sources in the Arabian Gulf and Europe said.

"The conversation has moved forward from buying the Rafale to how to co-develop the next-generation Rafale," a defense source in the Arabian Gulf said. The prospective new model would meet UAE requirements and "take the plane to the next level," the source said.

A co-development with a foreign customer and partner would be a big boost for the twin-engine fighter jet, which is seen in France as a jewel of aeronautical excellence and the crown of the country's arms-export efforts. Dassault Aviation has entered the Rafale in bidding for contracts in Brazil and India, and has offered it to Kuwait and Libya.

The UAE negotiations center on the systems and engine the upgraded aircraft would carry, the Gulf source said.

The main upgrades are said to be an active electronically scanned array radar, frontal sector optronics and an electronic warfare suite, systems supplied by Thales, and a 9-ton-thrust M88 engine, up-rated from the 7.5-ton engine that powers the French Air Force and Navy Rafales.

Last June, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said the United Arab Emirates was in discussions to buy the Rafale, which Dassault bills as an omnirole fighter. The jets would replace the Mirage 2000-9s bought from France in 1998.

Some 50 French executives were in Abu Dhabi in the week of April 12 as part of the talks, an executive at a rival fighter maker said.

"I can confirm the first," said a French executive close to the discussions. "We are working flat out on negotiating the contract and ancillary contracts."

The executive confirmed that the negotiations go beyond just a purchase, and are aimed at agreeing on co-development of an advanced version of the Rafale.

"There are, effectively, discussions between the two governments on how to finance the additional functionality," the executive said.

The co-development work is expected to take years, he said, adding that whether the work will make the new variant a "next-generation" Rafale is a question of semantics.

The executive said industry is working on the technical definition of the aircraft, while the financial aspects are being negotiated at the government level.

A June date for concluding a deal "is possible, not guaranteed," he said.

A second French defense executive said of the negotiations, "All the lights are green."

A Dassault spokesman would not confirm that a joint development effort might be part of the UAE-French discussion about the possible purchase of Rafales.

"Talks are continuing," he said.

Fighter Swap?

One European executive with knowledge of the deal said Paris has agreed to buy back the Mirage 2000-9s and put them into service with the French Air Force, then put its Mirage 2000-5s on the secondhand market and retire the Mirage 2000N nuclear strike version.

Asked about the buyback of Mirage 2000-9s, the Gulf source said, "It is all linked."

Such a deal would be expensive, said Etienne de Durand, director of security studies at the Institut Français de Relations Internationales, a Paris think tank.

De Durand said Rafale export sales help fund the development of new capabilities, maintain design skills and keep French industry at the cutting edge of world fighter technology. That is why France is ready to agree to extensive technology transfer to sell the Rafale to Brazil, and why "smart arrangements" are being offered to the United Arab Emirates, he said.

But de Durand said that it often takes years to see whether the arrangements really do make sense. Maintenance of technological capabilities needs to be balanced against funding the operational needs of the armed forces, notably among middle-rank powers such as Britain and France, he said.

If the deal brings Mirage 2000-9s into the French Air Force, it could reduce the money available for buying and upgrading the Rafale, de Durand said.

Privately, French Air Force officials worry about taking in the 2000-9, which will mean operating and supporting a mixed fleet when the Rafale was intended to replace seven different types of aircraft in the Air Force and Navy.

Engine Upgrade

Snecma, which declined to comment on the talks, announced several months ago that it was considering developing a more powerful variant of its M88 engine for UAE Rafales.

In a press pack distributed at the Singapore Air Show in February, the French aircraft engine and equipment maker said, "For the UAE Air Force & Air Defense, which require more power for enhanced combat agility and improved performance in very hot weather, Snecma is considering the development of a more powerful variant of the M88 jet engine.

"Snecma has already demonstrated the feasibility of the 9-ton version of the M88, allowing for the design-related risks to be under control."

Snecma would adapt the M88, not design a new engine, the company said.

Ordering Advanced Arms

The United Arab Emirates is known for funding state-of-the-art fighter development. In a forerunner to the potential Rafale deal, the Emirates funded the development of the Block 60 variant of the U.S.-designed F-16, adding an active electronically scanned array radar, new engine, electronic warfare and infrared gear, better cockpit avionics and conformal fuel tanks.

The Gulf state also has a history of working with France to develop advanced military equipment.

The Damocles laser targeting pod was co-developed for the UAE Air Force's Mirage 2000-9 under the name Shehab. The French arms procurement office bought nine Damocles pods in 2008 for its Mirage 2000D and Rafale F3 aircraft.

If the Emirates does buy the Rafale, no immediate orders are expected for missile maker MBDA, as the Gulf nation has a stock of Mica air-to-air missiles and Black Shaheen cruise missiles for its Mirage 2000-9 fleet, which would be compatible with the Rafale.

The Dassault static display at the Paris Air Show last year included a Rafale with three mock-up cruise missiles, demonstrating its long-range strike capabilities.

Later market prospects for MBDA would come with the AASM guided propelled bomb and the Meteor beyond-visual-range missile. The long-range weapon is due to enter service with the French Air Force around the middle of the decade.

The United Arab Emirates has ordered three Airbus A330 multirole tanker and transport aircraft, and is potentially interested in buying more. The Abu Dhabi government bought France's Leclerc tank in the early 1990s, becoming the only export customer.

France last year opened a naval base in Abu Dhabi as part of a shift of its military strength to the Gulf and away from Africa. The Gulf region is seen as strategically important because of the transit of petroleum tanker ships through its waters, the perceived threat from Iran and the sovereign wealth funds that are based in the Gulf states. ■

E-mail: achuter@defensenews.com, ptran@defensenews.com.

[buglerbilly]

First Test Flight of Rafale Fighter Powered by Upgraded M88-4E Engine

(Source: Snecma; dated May 4, web-posted May 5, 2010)

COURCOURONNES, France --- The first test flight of a Rafale fighter powered by the Snecma (Safran group) M88-4E engine (formerly designated the “TCO Pack”, for total cost of ownership) took place on March 22 at the Istres air base in southern France.

Lasting 1 hour and 30 minutes, the flight was a total success, and was used to expand the flight envelope. The complete test campaign for the M88-4E engine comprises some 70 flights in 2010, with different engine configurations. Ten test flights have been carried out to date.

“We are satisfied with the successful initial flights of the M88-4E, the third major engine upgrade, reflecting our continuing focus on research & development. The latest evolution of the engine enables us to better meet the expectations of our customer, by helping decrease the Rafale’s maintenance costs,” said Didier Desnoyer, Snecma’s Vice President Military Engines.

The development of the M88-4E is proceeding very satisfactorily. The first ground test of the engine was performed in September 2009. Development engines are now undergoing ground performance and endurance tests, and a series of altitude chamber tests was completed in late February. Qualification and delivery of the first production-standard M88-4E is now slated for the end of 2011.

In January 2008, French defense procurement agency DGA awarded Snecma the “TCO Pack” contract for the M88-2 engine. The aim of this contract was to extend the service life and time between inspections for several parts of the engine. Modifications mainly concern the high-pressure compressor and turbine.

Designed for the Rafale multirole fighter, the M88 is the first member of a family of new-generation engines intended for 21st century combat and advanced training aircraft. The M88-2 now powers all air force and naval versions of the Rafale. It is particularly well suited to low-altitude penetration and high-altitude interception missions.

Snecma, a Safran group company, is one of the world’s leading manufacturers of aircraft and space engines, with a wide range of propulsion systems on offer. The company designs and builds commercial aircraft engines – including the CFM56* world’s leader - that are powerful, reliable, economical and environmentally friendly, along with military aircraft engines that have always delivered world-class performance. Snecma also develops and produces propulsion systems and equipment for launch vehicles and satellites. Snecma also offers a complete range of engine maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) services to airlines, armed forces and operators.

-ends-

[Weasel]

...The development of the M88-4E is proceeding very satisfactorily. The first ground test of the engine was performed in September 2009. Development engines are now undergoing ground performance and endurance tests, and a series of altitude chamber tests was completed in late February. Qualification and delivery of the first production-standard M88-4E is now slated for the end of 2011...
If I could upload images I would show you what an instrument test rig looks like in the afterburner. Life expectancy? Maybe 2 ground runs if you are lucky... Takes a day to replace and then you go again. The rig alone can cost upward of 100k. The lost downtime in overhead? Maybe a million USD. It is like drilling for oil.

So the above is an impressive RD&D performance either way you cut it.

cheers

w

[ADMk2]

Something like this?

[tiddles]

Here is a bit of an update on the UAE [maybe] deal. There is also quite a bit of speculation as to what will happen to the 60 M2K that UAE have & are supposed to have a fair bit of life left in them. I think France has reached a point where they will do almost anything to clinch a deal for the Rafale with any buyer.
Tiddles
Hosted by Back to Google NewsFrench fighter sale talks with UAE moving forward: minister
(AFP) – 8 hours ago

PARIS — Technical talks on the sale of Rafale fighters to the United Arab Emirates are wrapping up, Defence Minister Herve Morin said Tuesday, adding that France was likely to pick up part of modernisation costs.

Regarding the improvements that the UAE is seeking to the multi-role aircraft, Morin said on France Info radio "that's a discussion we've been engaged in for months and which is in the course of being finalised".

Talks on acquiring the latest-generation French-made fighters began after the UAE expressed interest in 2008 in replacing its 60 ageing Mirage fighters.

Morin said the costs of the modernisation was in the order of two billion euros, not four to five billion euros as has been speculated, and that France would likely absorb some of the costs as it had planned to carry them out anyway.

Regarding Brazil, Morin said he "remains confident" that the Rafale will prevail.

The Rafale, made by Dassault, has yet to clinch a single overseas sale and is in competition with Sweden's Gripen NG by Saab and the F/A-18 Super Hornet manufactured by US giant Boeing.

The deal for 36 fighter planes is estimated to be worth between four and seven billion dollars, depending on details of armaments, maintenance and peripheral industrial involvement.

"We've established a relationship of trust with the Brazilians and they have never let us down," said Morin.

[ADMk2]

I'm sure the French did plan to improve the Rafale. All it needs is new engines, a whole new radar, a new or substantially upgraded EW system, new or updated avionics and processors, a working EO/IR targetting pod system, a decent WVR and BVR weapon system and it might actually be a competitive fighter, amongst 4th Gen fighters anyway...

Of course it will become even more hideously expensive that it already is and UAE are likely to become an "orphan" aircraft operator, but that doesn't seem to bother them too much at the present time, witness the Block 60 F-16.

Still, IF the Rafale actually gets all those upgrades, it'll pretty much have everything the UAE has actually asked for...

[tiddles]

I'm sure the French did plan to improve the Rafale. All it needs is new engines, a whole new radar, a new or substantially upgraded EW system, new or updated avionics and processors, a working EO/IR targetting pod system, a decent WVR and BVR weapon system and it might actually be a competitive fighter, amongst 4th Gen fighters anyway...

Of course it will become even more hideously expensive that it already is and UAE are likely to become an "orphan" aircraft operator, but that doesn't seem to bother them too much at the present time, witness the Block 60 F-16.

Still, IF the Rafale actually gets all those upgrades, it'll pretty much have everything the UAE has actually asked for...
Yes ,it does seem to need a few odds & ends fixing up,a HMCS would help a bit also.I am not sure about the engines though,thrust is about the same as the classic hornet & so is the weight, should be OK. I really like this plane because it looks the part & is very attractive & photogenic ,but as they say "beauty is only skin deep"
Tiddles

[Deks]

Here is a bit of an update on the UAE [maybe] deal. There is also quite a bit of speculation as to what will happen to the 60 M2K that UAE have & are supposed to have a fair bit of life left in them.

Weren't they talking about taking the M2K's back ?

[tiddles]

Weren't they talking about taking the M2K's back ?
I think a number of theories have been put forward re fate of the M2Ks but AFAIK nothing concrete, here is one of them
Tiddles
Last section of the folder, the resale of UAE Mirage 2000-9. A very sensitive issue in the UAE, which do not want that Paris sees to it. According to reports, Abu Dhabi and Qatar have done, with the benevolence of France, a joint proposal to sell their 72 Mirage 2000 (60 for UAE and 12 for Qatar) to India. This would open a serious lead for the Rafale in the very francophile Qatar . Nicolas Sarkozy had praised the qualities of the aircraft to the Emir of Qatar at the Elysee Palace this year. India could therefore find themselves at the head of a fleet of more than 120 cheap and efficient Mirage, counting the 51 Mirage 2000 it already has, to be upgraded by Thales and Dassault Aviation, finally convinced. This led some to say that India could then take his time to manage the call for tenders for 127 new generation aircraft it has launched

[JimWH]

This led some to say that India could then take his time to manage the call for tenders for 127 new generation aircraft it has launched
But they're already doing that at a very leisurely pace.

[Deks]

Interesting, a far better solution than inducting them back into the French Air Force, and as the quote mentions probably increases the chances of the Indians selecting Rafale (or perhaps, the UAE upgraded variant) for their MRCA contract.

I don't personally think the Rafale is that bad an aircraft, certainly if you want a current generation aircraft that's free (pretty much) of US components you don't really have any other options.

[tiddles]

But they're already doing that at a very leisurely pace.
We should not get too impatient Jim, optimists have predicted that a decision will DEFINATELY be made this century .
Tiddles

[tiddles]

While this is not about the UAE deal it is at least about the Rafale . While the final decision has not been made on the Brasil deal ,it has definately progressed a bit.
Tiddles
Defense selects the Rafale and the final decision will be for the president


Administratores.com.br, June 23

After much speculation, the Ministry of Defence decided to pick the Rafale fighter, made in France, to join the Brazilian Air Defense.

The decision was based only on technical issues.

President Luiz Inacio Lula Da Silva should convene the National Defense Council to discuss the matter. An explanatory memorandum of about 40 pages will be signed by Defence Minister Nelson Jobim, and the commanders of the Air Force, Brigadier Juniti Saito, and Navy, Admiral Moura Neto, confirms the choice. The document is divided between the positives and negatives of each of the three finalists aircraft - the Rafale (Dassault), the Gripen NG (Saab) and the F-18 (Boeing).

Each paragraph refers to documents prepared by the Air Force and the Navy. The Navy was consulted aiming at the aircraft carriers of 50 tons [50000?] to be built in the future.

It was also ensured the participation of Embraer in all stages of the project. In addition, the company is negotiating with France the development and sale of KC-390 military cargo.

In December last year, the Air Force delivered a report that put the F-18 as the winner rather than the Gripen, as speculated. Nelson Jobim ordered FAB to remake the document to adjust it to the National Defense Strategy (END). The FAB were using the same criteria as for FX1, which was canceled at the beginning of Lula's first term in 2003. At that time, the cost of maintenance, the unit price of the plane and the commercial offset package were the items which had higher scores. This time, technology transfer worth 40%. At the end of Fernando Henrique, it was 9%.

The Gripen NG has a better assessment on the transfer of technology, but lost many points on other items and was considered a high risk project. In practice, the Swede plane had only good evaluation at the beginning of the evaluation process.

The Rafale, on its side, was only bad on price. The Gripen flight hours is estimated between $ 7 and $ 8000. Saab has promised that he would be at $ 3000.

If the decision is confirmed, Saab is in trouble because the Gripen NG is the only enterprise project along with the modernization of the C and D versions of the same plane. Even Sweden has not purchased the plane and will only do it if there is a deal with Brazil. Over 100 units of the Rafale are already delivered and another 180 are ordered . The aircraft is well evaluated in the UAE and Switzerland. The Boeing F-18 Super Hornet is riding high in India.

Analysis (Marcelo Rech)

The fact that the Ministry of Defence has chosen the Rafale does not mean that the process is completed or will be confirmed by President Lula. There is an election in the near future and would not be a surprise if the decision will stay for the next administration.

The choice was technical.

The government believes the strategic alliance with France can compensate the fact that the Rafale is the most expensive among the three finalists. Embraer also gained a great deal. Gripen elected , it would just participate in the project. With the Rafale, it [Embraer] will be leading the process. The company also involves the development and commercialization of the KC-390 freighter in the business.

The United States could not, by law, closing a deal to buy the Super Tucano in return for selling the F-18, as speculated recently.

Jobim called for changes because he doesn't accept a off-the-shell purchase, as I said several times in public hearings held in Congress. He wants the industrialization of Defense and the field of technology in Brazil. And he believes it will be possible with the election of Rafale.

[tiddles]

Here is an interview with General Alain Silvy re aspects of the sale of Rafale to the UAE.I got this from the Mil Photos Rafale thread.France does seem to want to vary too much from the F3 variant for what seem reasonable reasons.
Tiddles
Awaiting the UAE
DSI special edition , August 2010
With the general Alain SILVY
Deputy Chief Plans within the Staff of the Air Force.

The french government took the pledge with the Rafale manufacturer to ensure, whatever happens, a minimum annual rate of 11 aircrafts. A rate estimated by the manufacturer as the floor below which it would not be possible to go without calling into question the economy of the program, including the unit cost of these aircrafts. The LPM (Law of Military Planning) not providing matching funds for the purchase of these machines for the years 2013 and 2014, either export allow very opportunely to keep the commitment to the industry, or export is lacking and the french state must find the necessary budgets by reducing or eliminating other programs. Is this commitment based on obtaining export orders a dangerous bet?

Alain Silvy: Let's be honest. This "bet", to use your word, on short-term obtaining of export orders for the Rafale, has nevertheless allowed to complete the LPM allowing the planning of a big hole in the shipment for the Air Force and the Navy without questioning the production rate, already reduced to the minimum industrially acceptable by Dassault Aviation. Deliveries to the French armies should be reduced to only 2 or 3 machines per year for a time, the export bringing the complement to reach the threshold of 11 Rafale produced per year. In case of absence of export order, the situation would become obviously complicated.[…] We would have to find a substantial funding of several hundred million euros. […]

But how to find the hundreds of millions euros in question?

The 3 armies have all benefited from the choice made by the planners of the LPM to reduce to a very low level the Rafale deliveries. The amount saved have been reallocated to the 3 armies. I think nobody questions it. We should have to find the funds by making new balancing within the LPM […] we must now hope that will come very quickly a first export order. […] But export is not neutral. Potential customers, including UAE, have specific requirements with developments leaving the French standards - and therefore with budget not taken into account by the LPM - they want cofinanced by the French state. That could require for France to find further funding for the Rafale program […]

What would be the cost for France of these additional co-development to fund with a potential UAE customer?

One hears everything and its opposite. Everything depends on what one includes. Personally, I do not give precise figures. But this is obviously something like several hundreds of millions of euros paid by the french state.

Is the Air force interested by some of the UAE requirements ?

From my point of view, it depends where. We could be potentially interested by the M88-X with 9 tons of thrust because it would be, in the circumstances, an open field. But, on the other hand, we have not yet reached the stage of maturity - which requires about 150,000 flight hours – with the current M88 with 7.5 tonnes thrust. This means that with the M88-X, even if it should presumptively enjoy a good community with the existing M88, we would have to accumulate even more hours to reach the stage of maturity of the engine.
Very clearly, in my opinion, the M88-X is not for the Air force an immediate need. In order to sell the Rafale to the UAE, the Defense may ultimately be asked to acquire the M88-X in a quantity and on terms still to define. And we'll maybe even happy to use it. But today we have no technical or operational reasons to make it available for us.The gain expected from the arrival of a more powerful engine is lower than the risks we would go with the technical immaturity of new modules and the management in parallel - so complicated in terms of logistics and operational employment of aircraft with different performances –of two relatively different parks of M88. All this must be thorough.

Would it be possible to see Safran manufacturing M88-X for UAE and continue to deliver “classic” M88 for the french Rafale? And this notwithstanding that the french government would have co-funded the development of the M88-X

It is not forbidden to imagine it. On condition, however, that to maintain the parallel production of two versions of M88 does not cost more than producing a single model. The support costs must not explode. Safran must tell us very quickly and very frankly what it would be. And again, nothing force us to equip the whole fleet of Rafale, Air and/or Marine.
And about the UAE demand to have a more powerful RBE2 radar, could it answer to some expectations for the Air force?

The Air Force is interested in having a RBE2 with an active antenna. It is now established with the powerful AESA antenna which will equip our tranche 4 Rafale. What the Emirians are calling for is much more complex. They want, in addition to the AESA, to have new functionalities on their Rafale, such as GMTT / GMTI (detection and tracking of moving ground target), interlacing between air/air and air/ground modes, etc.. Even if this is not for us an urgent need, the operational 'plus' obtained could nonetheless eventually interest us. However, the key Emirian demand is about the range of the RBE2. And, with the same antenna diameter, the only way to achieve the 10% range increase (compared with the Basic AESA F3 "roadmap") that wish to obtain the Emirians, is a big boost to the power of the radar.

But more power to the RBE2, could it be a risk to generate serious electromagnetic interference (EMI) with the SPECTRA receptors ?

There is indeed a very real EMI risk to treat. This is the case whenever we want to change aircraft emission systems. There are solutions, obviously, but this will require to reexamine SPECTRA. But the biggest problem we have identified is about electric generation, which could be insufficient. To increase the maximum range of a few nautical miles, we would have to deeply review the electrical generation system of the aircraft.
In short, to conceive what it could be a Rafale-9, that is to say a new aircraft moving away from the similarity you want with french Rafale. The Emirati experts participating in negotiations are well aware of the problem. But they are also used to have very high quality weapons systems. They want to avoid any regression with the Rafale, at least on the radar range, compared to the F-16 Block 60, the Rafale having also many other qualities. The Emirians don’t have AWACS and therefore want - it is a fundamental requirement - that the Rafale can see very far. Beyond the radar, they are showing fairly strong requirements into SPECTRA development with, for example, the expansion of some frequency bands, an increased sensitivity, adding functionalities; in short, they want we push up the current technologies. Of course, to improve the electronic warfare of our Rafale faster than originally planned could be an additional operational advantage for the Air force. However, our current approach is to consolidate the features implemented in SPECTRA, to make them more robust and make it easier for operators and programmers before wanting to go further into addition of new capabilities. The current SPECTRA is working well and even very good. In sum, what separates us, about Spectra, is a matter of timing and calendar […]. In a more general way, we share the same wishes about capabilities, but with very different maturities calendar sometimes. Budgetary constraints remain a dimensioning factor.
The Emirians want a viewfinder-HMD ...

It's true. And ourselves, one way or another, we will. For various reasons, we agreed in the past to not use it initially, but this equipment is now an almost indispensable element for modern combat aircraft. Besides various prospects of the Rafale - the UAE, Brazil and Switzerland – also want it, confirming this analysis.

In the end, what about the eventuality of a Rafale order by the UAE?

Very sincerely, and seen from my place, I think we're really not very far from being able to reach a common ground with our UAE friends. The only pertinent question to be asked is whether the will of similarity expressed by the Emirians will prevail over their performance requirement If performance is what counts, in fact we’ll get two quite different Rafale - as with the Mirage 2000-9 - because the french state can not or do not want to follow it. If the community is paramount, the Emirians will have to reduce their ambitions with regard to performance. The choice is now in their hands. They must see if their operational necessities allow them or not to settle for a weapon system fairly close to the F3 "roadmap" French standard. They must decide whether they consider more important to work very closely with us. I know they have already expressed the wish, in case of order, to be able to send their pilots very quickly in our Rafale units where they could train, learn the Rafale and our tactical employment. To obtain a rapid operational rise of their own Rafale squadron. in that case their Rafale configuration and ours must not be very different. But it remains to be seen ... That is where we are I think
.
How long would require the additional developments required by the UAE?

It is difficult to answer precisely this question, especially since I do not have all the elements of the problematic. The first UAE aircraft would not be delivered before 2014. This period should be sufficient to finish to develop a 9 tons M-88. About the radar, we would not probably have in 2014 all the capabilities and performance expected, but they would, I think, nevertheless be already very close to the target. The problem of electric generation requires also time to be processed. This will be a heavy operation for the aircraft. In the case of an order signed this year, we would therefore have some years to develop the additional features. These years should not be wasted. In any case, I think the discussions with Emirians take place on a sound footing. Their negotiators are experts who know exactly what is fighter plane and are aware of the state of the art and of various constraints. Talking to people at this level is very pleasant for the Air Force. However, now the order must materialize.
What about the UAE Mirage 2000-9 ?

The French authorities have been very clear on this subject. Once the Rafale ordered by UAE, the Mirage 2000-9 will be taken back by France which will issue them to a defeasance agency in charge of their resale export. This means that in this hypothesis, it is not envisaged that they equip the French Army.

But would it be interesting for the Army because these are recent cells with advanced weapons systems ?

We can not say that we feel no interest in these machines, because their weapons system displays really astonishing performance. The Air Force could certainly benefit. However, the indispensable work for NATO compatibility on these weapons systems would be very heavy with a cost probably exceeding the one - 700 millions euros - planned for the renovation of our Mirage 2000D, which is a priority for us.

If the UAE buy the Rafale, could the Rafale Transformation Squadron (ETR), which will be created in Saint-Dizier, be relocated at Al-Dhafra to help UAE pilots and benefit from the excellent local weather conditions ?

Why not? but we are not there yet. […] To install the ETR – as a whole or just a part - at Al-Dhafra could be an asset. Our first participation, last autumn, to the ATLC (Advanced Tactical Leadership Course) organized by the UAE Air Warfare Center, has once again demonstrated the richness of such exchanges. If the UAE order the Rafale, we may have to quickly take charge, in a way or another, of the transformation of their pilots on our weapon system. Doing it at Al-Dhafra would be - and this is only my opinion - interesting.

Interview by Jean-Louis Prome

[tiddles]

Here is a story about the UAE Rafale deal, it seems that the much maligned SH [On OS Forums anyhow] is now very much in the mix as is also the case in India and to a lesser extent in Brasil who seem to not really want a U.S. machine.The SH may not be perfect but it already has the systems that the Eurocanards promise they will provide one of these days particularly if someone else will pay the development costs.
Tiddles
Hornet a Surprise Competitor for $10B Deal

By PIERRE TRAN

Published: 13 September 2010


PARIS - The United Arab Emirates (UAE) has requested technical information on the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, a surprise move that turns an anticipated order of Dassault Rafales into a $10 billion competition, an Arabian Gulf defense source said.

"The UAE is asking the U.S. for information on the F/A-18 Super Hornet in the single- and twin-seater version," the source said. "It is in the very early stages; it's a preliminary contact. The UAE has opened the door to them."

UAE authorities approached Boeing about a month ago and were directed to the U.S. government, which is expected to respond in a month or so, a U.S. source said.

It's not clear why Abu Dhabi has suddenly expressed interest in the latest version of the U.S. strike fighter. Technology may be part of the reason, but politics is likely the main cause.

But the news will come as a severe upset to the French government and industry, which had confidently expected to secure a sale of the Dassault jet without competition.

"This is worth about $10 billion, depending on the delivery dates` and specification," the Gulf source said.

The deal means even more to the French administration, which has invested much political capital and effort in pitching the jet to the Gulf state.

Rafale is the standard-bearer for French aerospace industry, showcasing Dassault's competence as a designer and builder of cutting-edge fighters, Safran's engines and Thales' radar, electric warfare and avionics. A host of subcontractors depend on the jet, while MBDA hopes a UAE purchase will lead to exports of the Meteor and other missiles.

Two years ago, Claude Gueant, secretary general in the office of President Nicolas Sarkozy, told Europe 1 radio, "France is in negotiations with serious hopes, effectively, of selling around 100 Rafales. After 23 years, we're going sell Rafales at last."

Last year, Sarkozy put his personal stamp on the sales effort, talking up the fighter during a visit to Abu Dhabi to open the new French permanent military presence in the Gulf. Up to 500 French military personnel will be stationed at the Al Dhafra airbase, which houses a small number of Rafale fighters; and a naval station at the Mina Zayed port. The French Navy underscored the importance of the visit by dispatching three warships.

The Rafale has yet to win an export order; if the emirate buys it, other countries might follow suit.

The UAE is looking to replace the 63 Dassault Mirage 2000-9s it bought just over a decade ago. As part of Paris' efforts to sell the Rafale, France has offered to buy back the Mirage aircraft, which it would hold in a special-purpose company while looking for an export buyer.

Calls to the French president's office were not returned by press time.

Why The Shift?

It was not immediately clear why the UAE is exploring a U.S.-made option.

The U.S. source said the Gulf state is believed to be frustrated over price and the technology offered by France.

UAE authorities have been negotiating with the French government and industry a potential co-development of a more capable "fifth-generation" model of the Rafale.

Abu Dhabi is being asked to pay to upgrade the Rafale, while the F-18 is already at the desired technological level.

The Gulf source said, "The Super Hornet has everything we need. We don't need to co-develop or modify it."

Upgrades under discussion include a longer-range active electronically scanned radar, a more capable Spectra electronic warfare suite and a M88 engine that gives 9 tons of thrust, 1.5 tons more than the ones in the French Air Force's Rafales.

French Defense Minister Hervé Morin has said developing the upgrades would cost UAE around 2 billion euros ($2.6 billion). France itself would also bear some of the cost.

Media reports have estimated the actual development cost to UAE at 4 billion to 5 billion euros. Morin dismissed those figures as "fantastic."

The UAE did help bankroll the development of the Block 60 version of the Lockheed Martin F-16 and owns some of the technology. UAE bought 80 of the so-called Desert Falcon planes for $7.2 billion in the 1990s under a policy of spreading purchases among suppliers.

Political Winds?

But the Gulf source said technology was not the reason for the sudden shift.

"This is not about the specifications," the source said.

Perhaps a political shift is behind it. Dassault Executive Chairman Charles Edelstenne has underscored the role of politics in fighter sales.

"The sale of combat aircraft is a political act. All we can do is to make the best plane possible," Edelstenne said in March. "The Elysées [presidential office] does a superb job. In May 2007, we had zero prospects. Today, we have a significant number."

Besides negotiations with Abu Dhabi, Dassault has fielded the Rafale in contests in Brazil, India and Switzerland. Paris also enjoyed last year a period of exclusive talks with Libya, which lapsed without a deal.

The F-18 is a competitor in the Brazilian and Indian races. Boeing withdrew from the now-delayed Swiss tender, but could re-enter when the competition is relaunched.

It is unclear what political shift might have occurred recently between France and the UAE, analysts said.

"There has not been a notable change in relations," said Pierre Razoux, senior research adviser at the NATO Defense College, Rome.

Relations Appeared Sound

The inauguration of the French military base sent a strong signal of political support. Sarkozy's tough position on Iran's nuclear program was a sign that bilateral ties were running on a normal course.

"Abu Dhabi is a good friend," Razoux said.

The Rafale would not be the first French weapon to ink its first export sale in Abu Dhabi. In 1994, the UAE spent $2.4 billion to buy 390 Leclerc tanks and 46 armored recovery vehicles, built by Nexter, then known as Giat Industries. That has been the Leclerc's sole export sale.

But the Rafale is also the second European weapons deal in recent months to founder in the UAE. Last month, Finmeccanica was unable to deliver UAV technology, which had been agreed as part of a sale of 48 M346 jet trainers, leading the UAE to reopen talks to acquire the T-50 aircraft from South Korea.

[buglerbilly]

Dispute over article freezes France-UAE arms talks: source

By Emmanuel Jarry

PARIS | Fri Oct 1, 2010 2:53pm EDT

PARIS (Reuters) - A row over a French newspaper article is behind the breakdown of talks for a sale of French warplanes to the United Arab Emirates worth $5-6 billion, a senior French government source said on Friday.

UAE officials were angry about a June 26 article in Le Figaro, owned by conservative politician Serge Dassault, whose family-controlled Dassault Aviation made the Rafale, government officials said.

The newspaper said the UAE used Israeli technology to help secure its borders. Business with Israel remains a sensitive subject in the Gulf where most countries including the UAE have no relations with the Jewish state.

"We understood that it (the suspension) was for several months and we hope the talks will resume," the senior government source said.

A spokesman for Dassault Aviation declined comment.

Officials in Abu Dhabi could not be reached for comment on Friday, which is the local weekend.

The article appeared days after French Defense Minister Herve Morin said a sale of 60 Rafale aircraft to the UAE was near completion in what would be the plane's first export deal.

Asked on Friday on the television Parliamentary Channel if talks over arms sales to foreign countries including Brazil and Abu Dhabi had been derailed, he said: "Nothing is messed up."

Word that talks over the sale of Rafales could be in trouble surfaced last month when specialist publication Defense News reported that Abu Dhabi had expressed interest in the Boeing F/A-18, a U.S.-built competitor to the Rafale.

Sources familiar with the issue confirmed to Reuters in Washington this week that UAE had asked for technical information about the F/A-18 Super Hornet, puncturing exclusive talks with France on the Rafale.

Talks over the deal have already taken some time as the UAE pressed for changes to the Rafale including better radar and a more powerful engine to cope more quickly with heavy armament loads given the UAE's proximity to its main regional rival Iran.

The Rafale was originally designed to protect France against threats waged over longer distances during the Cold War.

The UAE wanted France to boost the thrust on the Rafale's Snecma M88 engines to 9 metric tons from 7.5 metric tons. But there have been protracted negotiations over who should pay for the enhancements, defense industry executives said recently.

(Writing by Tim Hepher; Additional reporting by John Irish; Editing by Louise Ireland)

[tiddles]

UAE, talks are progressing French Defense Minister says

Gerard Longuet (left) talks with Dassault CEO at last Paris air show

Reuters reports that the negociations between France and the UAE to buy the Rafale are progressing. One main point would be that the UAE would no longer require the 9T engine whose developpement would have increased the jet's cost significantly.

According to French Defense Minister, Gerard Longuet, "The United Arab Emirates is France's best bet in the short term for clinching an export deal for Dassault Aviation's Rafale fighter jet [...] the UAE are no longer demanding a more powerful engine, previously a condition for a deal.The Rafale airstrikes in Libya had helped sway the Emirati government.[...] The operational and multi-role capacities of the Rafale are being proven on a daily basis with these strikes,[...] The Libyan conflict is a clear demonstration that the current engine capacity is sufficient." he said.

Earlier this month Defense News reported rumors about talks between the UAE and Lockheed Martin for the purchase of more F-16E bk60, presumably instead of the Rafale which was too expensive

[tiddles]

I have put this story on this thread because of the Libya Campaign in which France involved its AF and also its carrier based airpower with great alacrity. To many observers this was a great showcase for the Rafale to gain a march on its main competitor the EF in the final of the Indian comp. I suspect that the planes seemingly good performance as an A2G machine with a variety of integrated weapons,including AASM & SCALP would not have hurt its cause in the UAE .
Tiddles
Rafale and AASM-Hammer, a Dynamic Duo

(Source: Sagem; issued July 20, 2011)
As we have seen throughout recorded history, each new conflict seems to bring its own share of innovations. Recently, for example, the air strikes over Libya – Operation Harmattan for France, and Operation Unified Protector for NATO in the framework of the UN resolution 1973 – have spotlighted the unexpectedly powerful performance of a new French-made weapon, the AASM Hammer (Highly Agile Modular Munition Extended Range) air-to-ground modular weapon developed and produced by Sagem.

The AASM made a discreet debut in the spring of 2008, when the French air force deployed a 250-kg version in Afghanistan. Today, it is part of the standard combat suite carried by the Dassault Rafale F3 multirole fighter. In fact, it’s an integral part of the tactical air-to-ground arsenal deployed by both the French air force and naval air arm, and has also been chosen by the Royal Moroccan air force as part of their current program to modernize Mirage F1 fighters.

The AASM Hammer is a medium-range guided weapon that can be used day or night and under all weather conditions – which is not the case of regular laser guided bombs, which have to be launched in the vicinity of air defense systems. Furthermore, these bombs’ guidance may be compromised, or even rendered ineffective, by cloud cover or hard rain.

France has already ordered more than 1,500 AASMs in the 250-kg version. The AASM is a rocket propelled bomb with terminal guidance, capable of very high precision attacks on targets at a range of more than 60 km. In other words, it can be fired by Rafale or Mirage fighters from a comfortable standoff distance, outside the reach of enemy air defenses.

The AASM stands out because it’s a modular weapon system, totally autonomous and jam-proof, flying resolutely towards its target once the coordinates have been manually loaded into the onboard computer by the pilot. The most advanced AASM models, like the Laser version now undergoing final tests, allow the modification of terminal guidance if needed to hit moving targets. In short, the AASM is a real “fire & forget” weapon. It could also be considered the equivalent of an air-to-surface missile, if only because its exceptional performance makes it the only weapon of its kind of the market for now.

Furthermore, the AASM "Hammer" is a family of precision weapons, with guidance and propulsion kits fitted to standard bombs of different sizes: 125 kg, 250 kg, 500 kg and 1,000 kg – the latter dubbed the “bunker buster” because of its ability to penetrate several meters of reinforced concrete. The aft-mounted propulsion kit comprises a solid rocket motor and four winglets for flight control, deployed when the weapon is released.

The most commonly used version today is the SBU-38 (Smart Bomb Unit) AASM 250, with hybrid inertial/GPS guidance. There is also the SBU-54 version, combining an inertial guidance system (INS), GPS correction and terminal guidance via an infrared imager (IIR). The latest addition to the family is the SBU-64, which adds laser terminal guidance to the INS/GPS hybrid package, enabling the AASM to hit moving or even highly agile targets.

The AASM’s sophisticated terminal guidance means that this weapon features capabilities unmatched by a conventional laser-guided bomb. In particular, the AASM offers a virtually vertical terminal trajectory, enabling it to attack, for example, a tank hidden behind a sand embankment or a concrete wall, or even a target in a narrow street or trench.

To date, the French air force has deployed about one hundred bombs in combat, all the SBU-38 INS/GPS version. This uses the basic guidance kit, with three inertial gyros whose directional pulses are managed by a Kalman filter and corrected in real time by satellite data from a military-standard GPS (Global Positioning System) receiver.

The Kalman filter is actually a mathematical method, or set of algorithms used to improve accuracy. It is applied in the form of an infinite impulse response electronics filter that estimates the various states of a dynamic system, based on a series of incomplete or scrambled measurements. Sagem’s engineers paid particular attention to this issue, to ensure that the AASM flight path could be continuously corrected and recalculated according to a predicted path that would enable it to hit its target within several meters – after a flight of 60 kilometers or more, as was demonstrated in the Libyan theater of operations recently.

To further improve precision, Sagem has developed two new versions of the AASM, currently undergoing final tests, that are no longer impacted by erroneous target coordinates: the SBU-54, which adds an infrared imaging mode, capable of recognizing a fixed target, the coordinates of which were first entered in its memory; and the SBU-64, using terminal guidance by acquisition of a laser spot, enabling it to destroy moving ground targets with a high degree of accuracy – to less than a meter in this case! A recent test demonstrated the effectiveness of this version against a target moving at 80 km/h.

Deploying both Mica air-to-air missiles and Hammer air-to-ground weapons, the Rafale fighters deployed in Libya have demonstrated unprecedented operational flexibility. The weapon system fulfills its assigned "swing role" capability, between air-to-air and air-to-ground missions. But in its configuration with four Mica and six Hammer missiles, the Rafale also provides real swing-role capability between different ground attack missions.

For instance, a patrol in this configuration prepared for a Battlefield Air Interdiction (BAI) mission can change to a ground attack mission when already in flight, to perform dynamic targeting of very different types of targets, including air defense sites or armored vehicles arriving at the front lines, without being affected by different weather conditions.

The most eloquent testimony undoubtedly comes from the French air force and navy pilots who deploy the SBU-38 daily, alongside their GBU-12 Paveway laser guided bomb, the standard 250-kg bomb used by NATO air forces.

According to Captain P, who is very satisfied with the performance of this new weapon, "In the Libyan theater of operations, as soon as we have the slightest suspicion of air defenses, which are always widely scattered in Libya, we remove the Paveway bombs and equip our Rafales with the AASM, because it allows us to effectively engage the enemy, away from their air defenses, especially the dangerous ’SAM rings’.

“In TST (Time-Sensitive Targeting) mode, the AASM’s range also allows us to hit a target without being detected from the ground, a possibility in asymmetrical combat. What’s more, a single Rafale can carry up to six AASMs. These are all significant advantages. Plus, since we can fire our weapons from further away than with the Paveway, and don’t need approach maneuvers, we save fuel – and in the combat environment, fuel is a key factor.

"The AASM is guided autonomously after being released, once the target coordinates have been obtained, whether they were uploaded to the system prior to the mission or in-flight.

“In TST mode, the target coordinates are generally provided by the Rafale’s optronics systems, either the front sector optronics (FSO) or the Damoclès pod. For the SBU-38 AASM, the Damoclès is considered an excellent coordinates extraction sensor. From the cockpit, we can also determine the terminal angle-of-attack in relation to the target.

"Over the last twenty years, the nature of warfare has changed completely: the enemy is more diffuse and the risks of collateral damage a major concern. So we need new systems that reduce detection and allow us to engage several targets simultaneously.

“The AASM full meets these requirements for our operations in Libya, since it can be used not only for symmetrical combat, but also for asymmetrical combat as well as guerrilla operations”.

[tiddles]

I f Edelstene is having trouble with the current exchange rate, well it could get worse unless POTUS can swing a deal soon on the debt ceiling.
Tiddles
Exchange Rate Behind UAE Rafale Balk: DassaultBy PIERRE TRAN
Published: 28 Jul 2011 09:41 PARIS - The price resistance from the United Arab Emirates on the Rafale fighter jet stems from an unfavorable euro-dollar exchange rate, but talks on the French aircraft continue, Dassault Aviation executive chairman Charles Edelstenne said July 28.

The UAE's discussion with Lockheed Martin about a potential purchase of additional F-16 fighters was "not a negative sign," Edelstenne told a press conference on the company's results for the first half of the year.


"Talks are going on," he said.

But with the euro at $1.40, the Rafale's sale price was boosted by the currency exchange rate, Edelstenne said. Dassault could not cut prices by 40 percent to offset the weaker dollar.

"I make Mirages, not miracles," he said.

The euro was trading at $1.43 in early afternoon, with the dollar under severe pressure from the U.S. government impasse on raising the debt-ceiling limit ahead of the Aug. 2 deadline.

Edelstenne refused to disclose the unit price of a Rafale, but he said an export purchase generally involves a political decision to pay a "price premium" that granted "independence of action." As the Rafale is built in France, reflecting a strategic decision on sovereignty, its costs are in euros, making it more expensive than an American fighter aircraft sold in dollars.

On the French government's July 20 decision to start negotiations with Dassault on a supply of the Heron TP medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) UAV, Edelstenne said this meant sustaining a French design capability in military aircraft instead of paying for the "Messerschmitt design office" in EADS.

Edelstenne said in picking OHB over EADS, Germany made similar national selections in its space procurement.

Asked what the significance was in selecting Dassault as supplier of an interim MALE UAV, Edelstenne said the choice showed a determination to maintain a French national capability in building combat aircraft, as the next manned fighter jet would not enter service for another 30 to 40 years.

The negotiations would determine what sensors and communications payloads would go on the Israeli Aerospace Industries' UAV air vehicle, which is intended to provide an interim solution until the planned Anglo-French new generation MALE UAV enters service, expected in 2020.

IAI has agreed to disclose technical information on the Heron TP, which will be adapted to French requirements, including the ability to carry weapons, Edelstenne said.

The interim MALE UAV could have a service life of around 10 years and could overlap with the new Anglo-French air system, a company executive said.

On an asset swap under negotiation between Safran and Thales, Edelstenne said the airplane engine and equipment maker was holding up a deal by saying "no" to each new proposal from the electronics company. That forced Thales into a corner, he said.

"The valuation levels are a bit extraordinary," Edelstenne said.

Dassault signed an agreement with the government on an asset swap when it took its 26 percent stake in Thales, covering inertial navigation, onboard electricity generation and optronics, Edelstenne said.

Safran's sales in optronics are worth around 600 million euros, and if the business were put into Thales, that would make the electronics company second or third in the world market for electro-optics.

At the Paris Air Show in June, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said the government would impose a settlement if industry failed to reach a voluntary agreement.

Edelstenne said he was "very satisfied" with the Thales first-half results, which were released on July 27. The results displayed early effects of the Probasis restructuring plan and improved management of large programs and contract negotiations, he said.

Dassault reported a 35 percent fall in net profit to 129 million euros from 197 million euros a year ago, as sales dropped 34 percent to 1.32 billion euros from 1.99 billion euros.

The sales and profit slide came from lower deliveries of the Falcon business jet, with a delay in shipment of the Falcon 7X into the second half.

Orders declined to 95 million euros from 99 million euros.

On a production rate of one unit per month, Dassault has delivered six Rafale jets so far this year out of 180 total orders to date.

Privately, company executives expect the French government to stretch out future Rafale orders because of expected defense budget cuts, especially if export contracts are won.

Besides the UAE, Dassault hopes to sell the Rafale to India, Brazil and Switzerland. India is holding to its timetable to buy 126 medium-range combat aircraft, and the Swiss government has shown renewed interest in replacing its F-5 fighters

[tiddles]

UAE Deal to buy Rafale fighter jets seen by end 2011
With oil prices now on the way down this could well be another false start
Tiddles

.
By Reuters Friday, 5 August 2011 10:21 AM

Negotiations have resumed to sell Dassault Aviation's Rafale fighterjets to the UAE, and a deal could be sealed between September and the end of the year, French daily La Tribune said on Friday.

Dassault Aviation could not immediately be reached for comment.

Last month, French Defence Minister Gerard Longuet said the UAE was France's best bet in the short term for clinching an export deal for the Rafale.

The French company has still not found a foreign buyer for the multi-role Rafale, billed as one of the most effective but also one of the most expensive fighter jets in the world.

The minister said the UAE was no longer demanding a more powerful engine, previously a condition for a deal, and said he thought Rafale airstrikes in Libya had helped sway the Emirati government.

"The operational and multi-role capacities of the Rafale are being proven on a daily basis with these strikes," he said.

"The Libyan conflict is a clear demonstration that the current engine capacity is sufficient."

The UAE has been in talks with Dassault since 2008 over the purchase of 60 Rafale jets, estimated at 10 billion dollars, to replace their fleet of Mirage 2000s which they bought in 1983