German Army NH90 woes

[buglerbilly]

German Army Report Highlights NH90 Deficiencies

By THOMAS NEWDICK, BERLIN

Published: 24 Feb 2010 11:27

An internal German Army report has provided a damning assessment of the German military's new NHIndustries NH90 multi-purpose helicopter. The 103-page document assesses the helicopter's current operational capability as extremely limited, and highlights a range of deficiencies. Compiled by the Luftlande- und Lufttransportschule (Airborne and Air Transport School), the report recommends using alternative aircraft whenever possible in an operational scenario.

Key problems outlined by the military include excessively limited ground clearance that prohibits soldiers' entry and exit except when on hard surfaces that are free of obstacles greater than 16 centimeters. Within the cabin, the seats are considered capable of accommodating only soldiers who weigh less than 110 kilograms with their gear. The German Army's latest Infantrie der Zukunft (Future Soldier) personal equipment weighs 25 kilos.

Limited internal dimensions mean that an infantry team can be carried only if team members leave their personal weapons and kit on the floor, where the items cannot be secured. The floor has proven so sensitive that it can be damaged by dirty boots, and the rear ramp is unable to support fully equipped soldiers, limiting its use for rapid entry and disembarkation.

Heavier infantry weapons, such as the Stinger man-portable surface-to-air missile and MILAN anti-armor missile, cannot currently be transported, since strap-down attachments are not provided. The transport of combined loads of troops and cargo is also prohibited.

The limited cabin space means there is no defensive machine gun and door-gunner.

The helicopter's winch is not powerful enough for the fast-roping of commando teams or boarding parties. The NH90 is also unable to deliver paratroops using automatic release, the report states.

German Orders for NH90s

The German military has placed orders worth around 4.6 billion euros ($6.2 billion) for 122 NH90s, which are to be used by both the German Army and Luftwaffe. A modified version earmarked for the German Navy has suffered from delays and technical difficulties. A firm order for this MH90 variant has yet to be placed. The latest order of June 2007 added a further 42 helicopters (30 for the Army and 12 for the Luftwaffe) to the previous 80-aircraft order placed in June 2000. The 12 latest Luftwaffe aircraft were to be provided with eight kits for combat-search-and-rescue (CSAR) duties.

These were to incorporate armor protection, in-flight refueling capability, improved countermeasures and defensive weapons. The CSAR modification was abandoned in 2008 as impracticable.

The German Army became the first recipient of the production NH90, accepting three aircraft in December 2006. Initial aircraft are currently used for training with the Army Air Corps Weapons School at Bückeburg.

NHIndustries did not respond to requests for comment by press time.

[McDethWivFries]

How different are the Euro ones to ours or would these same deficiencies effect ours too?

[Mercator]

TVNZ:

NZ expects new helicopters to be modified

The new NH-90 helicopters New Zealand is buying for the RNZAF are going to be versatile, with long flight ranges and capability to lift big loads, an official says.

The German Army - the biggest customer for a model similar to the eight New Zealand is buying for its own military - has pointed to many shortcomings in the aircraft and even recommended using alternative aircraft in operational scenarios.

NZ defence officials have received a translation of the summary of a leaked 103-page internal German military report which revealed several deficiencies in the NH-90, including:

Cabin seats capable of accommodating only soldiers who weigh less than 110kg with their gear.

Cannot carry heavier infantry weapons, such as the Stinger man-portable surface-to-air missile.

Clearance is so limited that soldiers have trouble getting in and out of the helicopter.

Rear ramp is too weak to support fully equipped soldiers.

Floor is so sensitive that it can be cracked by boots.

The helicopter's winch is not powerful enough for the fast-roping of commando teams.

But Ministry of Defence deputy secretary of acquisitions Des Ashton says that the New Zealand helicopters are still some away from going into operational service, and there is room to have modifications and "work-arounds" done if necessary.

"We wouldn't anticipate having the same range of issues as the Germans," he says.

Some of the issues raised by the Germans are not a problem for the RNZAF. A different antenna will be used so that ground-clearance will be less important, but will still have to be "worked around" operationally.

The strength of the hinges on the door at the back of the helicopter is an issue, but he expects this is something the manufacturer could fix.

"If there are issues with floor-strength and things, they will have to be modified, such as through load-spreaders," Ashton says.

Because New Zealand is not the biggest customer for the helicopter, it is likely that earlier deliveries to bigger customers will lead to generic changes which will address the problems which have been raised.

New Zealand in 2006 ordered eight NH-90s for $771 million, including logistics support, spare parts and training, and is expected to start introducing them in a few months to replace the Vietnam War-era Bell UH-1Hs. These 14 ageing Iroquois helicopters arrived in New Zealand in 1966 and 1970 and have been deployed around many Pacific countries, Antarctica and other parts of the world.

Ashton says New Zealand has pilot and a crewman training on the helicopters in Europe, and two German pilots are in New Zealand flying Iroquois until the NH-90s arrive.

NZ training crews will be initially trained on three helicopters in France before the aircraft are shipped to New Zealand.

It is expected one aircraft will be deliver, in France next December, with six delivered next year, and the remainder in early 2012. One of these helicopters will be used for spares "as this is the least expensive way to buy spares", Ashton says.

Defence Minister Wayne Mapp says the NH-90 helicopters will be a cornerstone of the Defence Force's capability in the future.

[Riđđu]

Would be nice to know a bit more about the background of all this. HPK 14 is know as NH90 outside Sweden.

from Sveriges Radio International

Defence Wants American Helicopter

Delays in the delivery of the European built HKP 14, has led the Swedish Armed Forces to consider buying the American Black Hawk helicopter, according to Swedish Radio News.

But the Social Democratic Opposition does not think the Swedish Military need any new helicopters yet. Instead, it should be upgrading some of the helicopters it already has, the Social Democrats spokesperson on defence Anders Karlsson tells Swedish Radio News.

Karlsson claims these older helicopters have only been used for a third of the time it was planned for. By upgrading them, they will cover the needs until the delayed helicopters arrive.

The European helicopter was supposed to be delivered between 2005 and 2009, but is now not expected to be fully functioning until 2020. The Armed Forces have been asked by the Government to suggest a solution in the meantime. Now Swedish Radio News quotes sources within the Armed Forces saying that the buying or leasing of the American helicopter is seen as a good alternative.

There is a lack of helicopters in the Swedish Armed Forces, which means that Swedish soldiers injured in for example Afghanistan are dependent on other countries for their evacuation.

-ends-

[buglerbilly]

[COLOR="Blue"]The European helicopter was supposed to be delivered between 2005 and 2009, but is now not expected to be fully functioning until 2020. The Armed Forces have been asked by the Government to suggest a solution in the meantime. Now Swedish Radio News quotes sources within the Armed Forces saying that the buying or leasing of the American helicopter is seen as a good alternative.

-ends-

WHAT on Earth makes them think it'll take 10 years to resolve NH90????

[Raven22]

By coincidence I was talking to a German Army officer over here for the Boxer trials today who was part of the trial of the NH-90. He said that everything mentioned in the report was true. Soldiers with pebbles in their boots were damaging the floor, heavy weapons placed on the floor would break through it etc. He mentioned their NH-90s would be 'fixed' by 2012. I don't know if ours suffer the same defects, but it is interesting none the less.

[Riđđu]

Can it be too complicated to fix the seats and floor?

[Raven22]

It would be if it was Australia doing it...

[Redcoat]

The effect of rectifying the faults on the NH90TTH would be to increase weight and therefore reduce combat load and make it more expensive Dont forget - it is not just the floor and seats it is the Ramp and Undercarriage as well
The cabin is too small and cramped for a group of fully equipped soldiers carrying a heavy bergens - you should have gone with the high cabin Swedish version which would have improved things a bit
The alternative is not a Blackhawk but an S92 Superhawk this proving to be a really excellent bit of kit AND it is the right size for the kind of operations going on in Afghanistan

http://www.sikorsky.com/StaticFiles/Sikorsky/Assets/Attachments/Mission%20Downloads/S92-044%20February%202009.pdf

The problem here is that the NH90 was designed to be similar to but slightly more convenient and technologically advanced than the Blackhawk The Blackhawk was designed to be similar to but slightly more convenient and technologically advanced than the Huey
Nobody really sat down and said what does the Army need if you look at operations in Afghanistan you see Heavily laden Infantry walking out of Chinnooks Merlins . They are heavily laden with bulky bergens to give them comabat persistence they need to emplane and deplane quickly sometimes under fire in that context the pokey little cabins of the Blackhawk and the NH90 clearly do not meet the need. It is interesting that British and the US Marines have always preferred something bigger than a "squad chopper"

"Defence Minister Wayne Mapp says the NH-90 helicopters will be a cornerstone of the Defence Force's capability in the future" - Whoops !!!.

[Doohan]

Lots of the issue around seating are the same as the Blackhawk. I would suggest the seat loading issue is more about achiving a crashworthness rather than the seats ability to accept the weight.
This has always meant that we have had to remove our packs and have the loadie load and unload them. May be they will be stacked on the ramp and just dropped as part of the departure.
Must admit the fragility of the floor is a concern

[buglerbilly]

Eurocopter rejects criticism of NH90 helicopter by ‘secret report’


Coping with challenges of Europe’s "largest helicopter programme.”

Interview with Dr Clive Schley, VP & NAHEMA Programme Coordination Manager, Eurocopter

06:06 GMT, March 31, 2010 defpro.com | In February, a “secret report” containing strong criticism of the NH90 transport helicopter, allegedly uncovered by the German daily BILD, created quite a stir in the civil and defence media landscape. The German Armed Forces (Bundeswehr) report, which BILD reportedly obtained from internal sources, is said to criticise the performance of the helicopter and include a long list of flaws and shortcomings which have been identified since the first trials of the new helicopter. The criticism is said to even question the general fitness of the NH90 for military operations. On the occasion of a visit to Eurocopter Deutschland GmbH, defpro.com specifically asked for Eurocopter’s response to this report and received comprehensive feedback by Dr Clive Schley, Vice President & NAHEMA Programme Coordination Manager, which we would like to share with the readers.

defpro.com: Dr Schley, you and your colleagues have spent several years in this programme. What is your reaction when you learn of an internal report by the Bundeswehr from the daily press which allegedly questions the capabilities of your product? Have you received similar feedback from your customer?

Schley: This “secret report” which was mentioned by the daily press was not new to us. We are regularly in touch with our customer regarding the status of NH90 programme. The report referred to by the daily press does not reflect the actual status and, respectively, the actual contractual background. The NH90s which are currently deployed with the German Armed Forces for pilot and ground crew training correspond to the agreed pre-series configuration of the Initial Operational Capability (IOC). The Final Operational Capability (FOC) for the German Army and Air Force will receive final certification in 2010 and are scheduled for delivery beginning in 2011.

The IOC configuration has undergone various operational trials during the past months in order to identify possible weak spots in the pre-series status. It is absolutely normal in the case of such complex weapon systems that the findings of these operational trials are incorporated into the final development phase.

defpro.com: A supposed point of criticism is the reduced ground clearance of the NH90 which, reportedly, limits the capability of the helicopter to land on level landing spaces. Furthermore, the objection was made that the passenger seats can only bear a maximum weight of 110kg and that the cabin is too small. The latter issue allegedly forces soldiers to place their equipment, unsecured, onto the floor. The measures and the layout of the NH90 have certainly been agreed upon and known before. How do you explain this late discovery of related problems?

Schley: The specifications for the ground clearance as well as for the passenger seats have been jointly defined and agreed upon by the customer and industry in an international contract. For instance, the seats for the soldiers have been approved for a weight of 110kg; however, this does not represent the maximum load of the seats. The industry offers solutions for the designated and advanced requirements which, for the most part, are not unusual regarding the long-standing certification procedures for aircraft.

defpro.com: According to the report, there is not enough space to install a machine gun for the door gunner. Therefore, the helicopter reportedly has to be protected by additional forces during high-intensity conflicts. Has the NH90 been designed to include a machine gun for self-protection and does it actually limit the transport capacity when installed? What has been the customer’s demand in this regard?

Schley: Generally, compared to the predecessor, the NH90 represents a significant improvement in terms of transport capacity and flexibility.

With regard to the installation of a machine gun in the side doors, we complied with explicit customer requirements. Within the framework of the upgrade of the helicopter for MedEvac / CasEvac missions, Eurocopter will examine, along with the authorities, the loading through the side doors. This will include loading procedures when a machine gun is installed. First results are promising. For instance, the loading of stretchers through the side doors with a mounted machine gun has already been successfully tested. Trials of a MedEvac demonstrator, to be jointly carried out with the customer, are scheduled for the second quarter of 2010.

defpro.com: Finally, the NH90 features a winch which, allegedly, is too weak to permit several soldiers to rope down in rapid succession as, for instance, is done by Special Forces. Which load can the winch carry and can it be used for these purposes?

Schley: The winch has been certified for a contractually specified 270kg. The roping of personnel with the winch is based on this weight and has already been successfully carried out by other customers. In Germany, the use of the winch has been limited to a maximum weight of 237kg by the customer. Eurocopter is in touch with the German government agency in order to also provide full usability of the winch in Germany. Further roping techniques, such as fast roping, are generally possible with the NH90 and have already been put into practice by some customers. However, the associated equipment kits are not included in the order package for the German helicopters.

defpro.com: In the case of the A400M transport aircraft, the multi-national nature of the programme has proven to be a stumbling block as the industry had to consider the interests of the individual nations in the process of development and production (including the distribution of the production throughout Europe). How do you generally judge the principle of multi-national procurement programmes and how do you judge this factor in the case of the NH90?

Schley: The NH90 has been jointly defined and ordered with the NHI (NATO Helicopter Industries, consisting of Eurocopter, Eurocopter Deutschland, AgustaWestland and Stork Fokker) by Germany, France, the Netherlands and Italy. The NH90 is designed as a multi-purpose helicopter for a variety of missions and will be deployed with the respective services of the Armed Forces - the Army, Air Force and Navy – in specific configurations. It will replace twelve weapon systems currently in service. In Germany the NH90 will, in the future, replace the currently used helicopter types of its class. This certainly holds some challenges which, in the helicopter market, have not been defined before to such an extent.

And still, the NH90 programme is the largest and most successful helicopter programme that has ever been carried out in Europe. Meanwhile, 529 NH90 helicopters have been ordered by 14 nations. The NH90 is one of the most state-of-the-art military helicopters in the world. Special emphasis has been placed on an optimal man-machine interface and a glass cockpit, featuring state-of-the-art avionics which significantly reduce the workload of the pilots and the crew. The NH90 is the first serial helicopter that is controlled by a fly-by-wire system, will consist of carbon composites to a large extent and will significantly impede radar detection due to stealth technology.

Compared to the A400M, 40 NH90’s have already been produced and pre-series trial helicopters have been delivered to five nations (Germany, Italy, Australia, Finland, Sweden).

defpro.com: What are the next milestones in the NH90 programme and where will the helicopter first have the opportunity to prove its capabilities?

Schley: Currently, the NH90 is deployed with Germany, Sweden, Finland, Australia and Italy for pilot and ground crew training. As mentioned, 40 NH90’s have already been delivered and an additional 50 helicopters are currently in their international production phase. The next near-term milestones are the handing over of the NFH naval version, with one helicopter to be delivered to the Dutch Navy and one to the French Army during the first quarter of 2010.

defpro.com: Thank you very much, Dr Schley.

----
(The original German interview with defpro.com is available at: http://www.defpro.com/news/details/14183)

[Chunder]

Can it be too complicated to fix the seats and floor?

From a design perspective one looks at the parameters that are critical for the seat performing it's role.

At first take, the answer appears to be no. Until you look at what the seats are attached to. I.E structural members, and whether their attachment and weight bearing upon them would adversely affect the structural integrity of the airframe.(I don't know shit about it's layout). However to illustrate the point, suppose said seats are attached to a longeron running the length of the body with secondary support member. at 110kg's at 4 G's that becomes 440kg's. With 8 men that becomes 2.64 tonne. Then there's something called shock factor which is definitely present in the vibrating cabin on a chopper, then of course, there is the fact that the structural member may well be aluminium, so the leads to an unpredictable cycle rate. So what exactly are these seats attached to? Just what secondary roles does the member provide? If your required to sit within a certain weight then other methods may be looked at for some arrangements.

You'd be surprised what actually crops up in testing. To me, this is where criticism of a platform in unjust. MOST platforms undergo some hindsight modifications.simply because the people designing it are human. A Bachelor in engineering design doesn't necessarily make one smart engineers constantly stuff up. Raven's point in context is probably closer to the mark that what he thought.. :)

[Riđđu]

WHAT on Earth makes them think it'll take 10 years to resolve NH90????

Apparently the Swedes ordered their NH90 in basic configuration which wasn´t suitable for international operations in sandy places with different threat level. But that still doesn´t explain 10 years.