Commercial Tanker Ops gain prominence?

[buglerbilly]

DATE:27/01/10

SOURCE:Flight InternationalEuropean Defence Agency urges nations to back commercial air tanker service

By Craig Hoyle

European Union nations are being urged to establish a pooled air-to-air refuelling capability, after a study last year concluded that a critical shortfall exists among partner air forces.

The European Defence Agency conducted a study from 2005 into the possible formation of a tanker unit via a private finance initiative, private/public partnership or joint venture agreement, says Belgian air force Lt Col Laurent Donnet, project officer in deployability. "We got no interest from the nations in 2007," he adds.

The EDA gave a fresh presentation to national representatives in March 2009, including input from commercial refuelling service provider Omega Air, and a follow-on meeting was staged last November. This drew involvement from the multinational Movement Coordination Centre Europe (MCCE) organisation, the US Naval Air Systems Command and UK company Qinetiq.

Donnet says the meeting resulted in "possible interest from the nations," but notes: "There was no clear commitment." However, feedback provided during December suggests that a niche could exist for a commercial supplier to provide "assured access" AAR services under some circumstances, for example while supporting international training deployments.

The EDA will on 10 February again raise the issue of a Commercial AAR Interim Solution (CAARIS) project with its 26 EU member states.

"We will put forward a clear action plan and propose a solution for CAARIS," Donnet said during IQPC's Air Tankers and Aerial Refuelling conference in London on 25 January. "We are looking for the nations to go ahead with a trial, and to set up a group to discuss a follow-up. Hopefully they will give us a mandate to research the AAR shortfall in more detail."

Donnet believes some EU nations could eventually back the formation of a structure similar to the Boeing E-3A Airborne Warning and Control System aircraft-equipped NATO Early Warning and Control Force. This could initially be equipped with "five or six multirole tanker/transports".

MCCE director Col Freek van der Vaart told the same conference that 18 of his organisation's 21 signatory nations have a requirement to conduct operations with AAR assets, but "only nine have tankers".

Additional benefits of a CAARIS service could include the provision of support during national certification activities for tanker derivatives of commercial aircraft, he says, using the UK's Airbus A330-200-based Future Strategic Tanker Aircraft as an example.

[Unicorn]

Calling Omega Air Tanker, Omega Air Tanker to the white courtesy phone....

Unicorn

[buglerbilly]

IF OMEGA could get a $1 Billion from somewhere then it could make a fortune for the simple fact it could buy the right planes new............with all respect their second-hand shit doesn't have more than 5-10 years of high tempo Ops in them.

NEW planes could allow them to corner the Global market, 9-12 at least..........IMHO

[JKM Mk2]

Didn't OMEGA buy the ex-RAAF 707 tanker/transports?

JKM

[Unicorn]

Indeed they did.

Unicorn

[buglerbilly]

DATE:02/02/10

SOURCE:Flight InternationalSINGAPORE 2010: IAI unveils plans to convert used 767s into tanker-transports

By Stephen Trimble

Israel Aerospace Industries' (IAI) aircraft conversion specialist Bedek has unveiled plans to launch a new tanker-transport for the global market based on used Boeing 767-200s.

Bedek had launched the 767 multi-mission tanker transport (MMTT) programme even before the Israeli government announced plans in November to acquire such an aircraft, an IAI executive says at the Singapore Airshow.

The Israeli order remains under discussion as the prime minister's office and the Israeli Air Force negotiate a combined funding effort. Israel plans to operate the aircraft primarily as a VIP transport for senior government officials, but it could also serve a military role as tanker and cargo aircraft.

Bedek's design, therefore, emphasizes a modular approach, allowing the aircraft to convert swiftly from tanker mode to cargo mode to passenger mode, the executive says.

In the tanker role, the aircraft will be designed to offload 45,300kg (100,000lb) at ranges up to 1,000nmi. In cargo mode, the aircraft would be configured to carry 34,000kg as far as 3,000nmi, according IAI's marketing documents. The MMTT also could support a load of 220 passengers, plus serve in other missions, including medical evacuation.

IAI's concept includes providing its internally designed fly-by-wire refuelling boom and drogue pods, the IAI executive says. Bedek has converted several aircraft previously into tankers, ranging from Boeing 707s, Lockheed Martin C-130s and Ilyushin Il-76s.

Bedek is focusing the world market for used 767s to make the conversions.

"Buying a new one we believe is a waste of money," the IAI executive says.

[buglerbilly]

Promo video relating to this...........

[buglerbilly]

Tactical Air Defense Services Secures Agreement for Use of IL-78 and IL-76 Supertankers

(Source: Tactical Air Defense Services, Inc.; issued May 18, 2010)

CARSON CITY, Nev. --- Tactical Air Defense Services, Inc., an Aerospace/Defense Services contractor that offers air-combat training, aerial refueling, aircraft maintenance training, disaster relief, and other Aerospace/Defense services to the United States and Foreign militaries and agencies, is pleased to announce that it has signed a Lease Option Agreement for the exclusive lease of two Russian ILyushin IL-78 and two ILyushin IL-76 supertanker aircraft from Air Support Systems, LLC.

TADS intends to offer the Ilyushin aircraft to the U.S. and foreign-allied militaries and other federal and state agencies for air-to-air refueling services, aerial fire-fighting services, oil-spill containment services, and other disaster relief deployment services, uses for which it is widely contended the ILyushin aircraft are superior to any other aircraft in service today. Tactical Air Defense Services, Inc. believes that it is the only company to have ever successfully imported into the U.S. an ILyushin supertanker, which IL-78 military aircraft had been under exclusive lease by TADS until late 2009.

The Lease Option Agreement with Air Support Systems, LLC gives TADS the right to enter into exclusive one-year renewable leases for any or all of the four supertanker aircraft, under a fee arrangement that allocates 50% of the operating profits each to TADS and Air Support Systems respectively.

The ILyushin IL-78 is a specialty military air-to-air refueling supertanker capable of refueling 3 aircraft simultaneously, and is the air-to-air refueling aircraft of choice around the world.

The ILyushin IL-76 supertanker is a Russian made aircraft specifically designed for aerial fire-fighting, and which can be retrofitted for aerial oil-spill containment. The IL-76 is recognized throughout the world as the pre-eminent aerial firefighting tool available, and is considered superior in all respects to other aerial firefighting aircraft in existence.

The IL-76 supertanker can deliver, in a single pass, over 18,000 gallons of liquid chemicals, covering an area approximately a quarter of a mile wide and one and a half miles long. Most importantly, the IL-76 is the only aircraft of its size that was specifically designed to withstand the rigors of water bombing, which makes the IL-76 an extremely safe and reliable aircraft both for aerial fire-fighting and aerial oil-spill containment.

Alexis Korybut, CEO of TADS stated: "The execution of this agreement with Air Support Systems, LLC is of great benefit to TADS as we seek to expand and improve the scope and capabilities of our service offerings. We believe our exclusive ability to lease these specialty Russian aircraft will help TADS to capture a significant portion of the rapidly growing sectors of outsourced military aviation services, aerial fire-fighting, and oil-spill containment services."

-ends-

[Deks]

Evidently TADS flies Mig-29's, flankers and F-16's as well, and provide training on a wide variety of air combat scenarios out of the US. A company to keep an eye on, perhaps.

[buglerbilly]

DATE:21/01/11

SOURCE:Flight International

IAI offers 'power-by-the-hour' use of 767 tankers

By Arie Egozi

Israel Aerospace Industries has offered some air forces a deal that would enable them to have an aerial refuelling capability on a "power-by-the-hour" basis.

The plan is based mostly on the use of converted Boeing 767s to be operated either by a local airline or by Israeli pilots. It has been prepared for nations that cannot afford to buy their own tankers.

Negotiations are under way with air forces that have shown an interest in the proposal, says a senior IAI source.

In 2008, IAI won a contract to convert one secondhand Boeing 767-200ER as a tanker/transport and VIP aircraft for the Colombian air force. It delivered the aircraft last November after equipping it with a hose-and-drogue refuelling system.

[buglerbilly]

DATE:19/05/11

SOURCE:Flight International

Omega 707 tanker crashes in California

By Greg Waldron

A Boeing K-707 tanker operated by Omega Aerial Refuelling Services has crashed taking off from Naval Air Station Point Mugu in California, but media reports said the three-person crew escaped without injury.

A video clip on the website of Los Angeles ABC news affiliate KABC-TV showed a 707 burning at the end of runway, the Omega logo clearly visible on the tail. A report quoting an Air Station spokesman said the aircraft was carrying 150,000 pounds of jet fuel.

A number of fire fighting agencies as well as a helicopter were called on to douse the blaze.


KABC-TV Los Angeles

According to Omega's web site, the company operates two K-707s. One was a former Pan Am 707-300 with registration number N707AR, the other a former Saudi Arabian diplomatic transport, register N707MQ. It is not clear which aircraft was involved in the incident.

The company also operates a KDC-10 tanker converted from a Japan Airlines DC-10.

The company fills a niche providing tanker support for the armed forces of the United States and its allies.

[Unicorn]

Apparently that aircraft was in Australia only a few days ago.

Fortunately the crew got out.

.

[buglerbilly]

IF I had access to silly money, I'd be buying a small group of both air and at-sea tankers.........HUGE potential for a growth market...........

[Exsandgroper]

DATE:19/05/11

SOURCE:Flight International

Omega 707 tanker crashes in California

By Greg Waldron

A Boeing K-707 tanker operated by Omega Aerial Refuelling Services has crashed taking off from Naval Air Station Point Mugu in California, but media reports said the three-person crew escaped without injury.

A video clip on the website of Los Angeles ABC news affiliate KABC-TV showed a 707 burning at the end of runway, the Omega logo clearly visible on the tail. A report quoting an Air Station spokesman said the aircraft was carrying 150,000 pounds of jet fuel.

According to Omega's web site, the company operates two K-707s. One was a former Pan Am 707-300 with registration number N707AR, the other a former Saudi Arabian diplomatic transport, register N707MQ. It is not clear which aircraft was involved in the incident.

The company also operates a KDC-10 tanker converted from a Japan Airlines DC-10.

The company fills a niche providing tanker support for the armed forces of the United States and its allies.


I thougth Omega purchased some of the RAAF's 707's, and did not one of these come from Saudi Arabia.

Cheers

[Milne Bay]

I thougth Omega purchased some of the RAAF's 707's, and did not one of these come from Saudi Arabia.

Cheers

I have never heard a satisfactory explanation of why the RAAF had to get rid of its tanking assets before the new ones came online, while at the same time these same aircraft could continue to be used commercially.

[buglerbilly]

I thougth Omega purchased some of the RAAF's 707's, and did not one of these come from Saudi Arabia.

Cheers

IF Omega purchased any it was for Spares as far as I know...................

[Unicorn]

I thougth Omega purchased some of the RAAF's 707's, and did not one of these come from Saudi Arabia.

Cheers


N707MQ, one of the last commercial 707s ever built. Originally delivered to Saudia in 1977. 707MQ was also the 707 that led the "Parade of Sevens" at BFI in 2007 as part of the 787 rollout festivities.

.

[buglerbilly]

Ares

A Defense Technology Blog

Classic Loss

Posted by Guy Norris at 5/20/2011 3:33 PM CDT

This week’s crash of an Omega Boeing KC-707 air refueling tanker at Naval Base Ventura County Point Mugu, Calif, is a big loss to the aerospace industry research and development community.

Although frequently chartered to the U.S. Navy, Marine Corps and international customers such as the Royal Australian Air Force for standard air refueling during exercises, training and deployments, the Omega fleet also plays a key role in supporting research, development, test and evaluation work across the U.S. Together with a sole surviving 707 sistership, and a single KDC-10 tanker – a DC-10-40 equipped with two Flight Refueling hose and drogue wing pods, the fleet provides a rare capability. The KC-707 is fitted with two Sergeant Fletcher baskets on the aft centerline, although only one assembly can be used at one time.


The Omega tanker was left to burn itself out close to the beach. Credit: ABC

The classic jetliner community is also mourning the loss of a rare active 707 (as opposed to the relatively ubiquitous KC-135). According to the FAA, the aircraft written off in the May 18 aborted take-off accident was the older of Omega’s two 707s – a 1969-built -321 model. In an ironic twist it turns out that nine months after its March delivery to Pan Am that year, the same 707 was almost written off in an aborted take-off at Sydney Kingsford-Smith airport, Australia on Dec 1, 1969.


Flashback 42 years - the same 707 survived an aborted take-off in Australia. Credit. John Burgess

On that occasion, the aircraft (N892PA) was substantially damaged after an overrun caused by bird strikes and a related engine failure, but there were no fatalities to the 11 crew and 125 passengers. Thankfully the current crew of the 707, now registered N707AR, also survived the May 18 accident. According to images of the scene, the aircraft left scorch marks across parts of the ground and a taxiway as it ran off the south side of Point Mugu’s 11,102-ft long main 3/21 runway. The 707 came to a rest close to the overrun area and the beach which borders the west side of the Point Mugu facility.

According to sources, the combined Navy, NTSB and FAA investigation team is focusing on an engine failure and fire as the suspected cause of the accident which occurred at around 17.25 Pacific time.

[buglerbilly]

Point Mugu air tanker had engine fire before crash

By Adam Foxman

Posted May 19, 2011 at 11:21 a.m., updated May 19, 2011 at 6:19 p.m.


Photo by Stephen Osman // Buy this photo
A Boeing 707 burns after crashing during takeoff at Naval Base Ventura County Point Mugu, Wednesday afternoon. Three people on board escaped with minor injuries, authorities said.

The civilian tanker jet that crashed this week during takeoff from Naval Base Ventura County when its engine caught fire was on its way to serve as an airborne refueling station for a training exercise, authorities said Thursday.

The Boeing 707 was headed down the main runway at Point Mugu about 5:25 p.m. Wednesday when it apparently veered off the pavement, went into a marsh area, broke up and burned, said Vance Vasquez, a spokesman for the base.

"Apparently, it never did get airborne," Vasquez said.

In a prepared statement Thursday, the National Transportation Safety Board said the plane experienced an engine fire during takeoff. Officials with the NTSB, which is leading the investigation, did not return a call seeking further comment Thursday.

The three civilians on the plane — the captain, first officer and flight engineer — escaped relatively unharmed. One had minor scrapes and bruises, Vasquez said.

The tanker, carrying 150,000 pounds of fuel, burned for nearly four hours, officials said. The blaze sent up a thick plume of smoke visible for miles.

Ventura County and city firefighters helped federal personnel battle the flames, and a sheriff's helicopter dropped water on the blaze, Vasquez said.

"Toward the end, they wanted to let it burn itself out," Vasquez said, adding that the fire was not endangering any people or buildings.

The plane was destroyed. The wreckage remained at the scene Thursday as the NTSB began its investigation, Vasquez said. He expects it will be a while before any conclusions are reached.

Officials also were working Thursday to prevent environmental damage in nearby wetlands. Vasquez said most of the fuel apparently burned off, and the oil that did get into Point Mugu Lagoon was contained.

State Department of Fish and Game officials found a 2,000-by-1,500-foot area of the lagoon with an oil sheen, said Carol Singleton, a department spokeswoman.

"It seems like it's a pretty thin sheen, which is good news," she said, adding that the jet fuel apparently will evaporate quickly.

The plane was owned by Omega Aerial Refueling Services Inc., an Alexandria, Va.-based civilian company under contract with the Navy to provide operations support at Point Mugu's sea test range, officials said.

Omega President William Stewart Orr on Thursday referred all questions about the crash to the Navy. "We are not commenting," he said.

Later Thursday, Vasquez referred questions specific to Omega back to the company, which by then was closed for the day.

Vasquez said the plane was supposed to fly out over the Pacific Ocean to refuel carrier-based Navy aircraft during a routine training exercise.

He said planes such as the tanker typically fly in a semicircular pattern, serving as a flying gas station for Navy jets, including the F-18 Hornet and Superhornet. When a jet needs fuel, it pulls up to the tanker, which deploys a hose with a conical "basket." The jet extends a device that connects with the cone to receive fuel.

When the Omega airplanes are not needed, they return to their home bases. This plane was based out of Brunswick, Ga., Vasquez said. According to a Federal Aviation Administration registry, the 707-321B aircraft was manufactured in 1969 by Boeing.

Omega, a 7-year-old company that provides refueling services to the U.S. military and allies, has a fleet that includes two 707 tankers and a DC-10, according to the company's website. Many crew members and other employees have an Air Force background, and key managers include former Naval aviators, the website says.

Vasquez said Omega has been a military contractor for years, and Wednesday's incident was the first involving one of its planes at Naval Base Ventura County.

According to a NTSB database, the only other civilian crashes at the base involved Cessna aircraft and occurred in 1991 and 1993. Three people suffered minor injuries in the 1993 crash.

In 2002, a Navy pilot and Marine officer were killed when the QF-4 they were flying crashed during the Point Mugu Air Show.

Singleton said Point Mugu Lagoon is a sensitive wetland area with birds, including threatened snowy plovers and clapper rails, and officials observed one bird that had been oiled. Fish and Game activated its Oiled Wildlife Care Network, she said.

People were working Thursday to scare birds away, Singleton said. One technique involved using metallic ribbons.

Fish and Game officials and cleanup crews weren't able to get close to the plane because of the NTSB investigation, Singleton said. They were working on the cleanup with the Navy, Coast Guard, Ventura County Fire Department and a contractor.

"The Navy's been a very good steward of the wetland resources within their ownership," said Peter Brand, a senior project manager with the California Coastal Conservancy.

Brand said he had been meeting with Navy officials about possibly working together on conservation projects. "I'm sure they would compensate well for any kind of rare accident like this."

© 2011 Ventura County Star. All rights reserved.

Read more: http://www.vcstar.com/news/2011/may/19/new-details-released-about-point-mugu-tanker/#ixzz1MysHmxtk
- vcstar.com

[buglerbilly]

DATE:12/07/11

SOURCE:Flight International

Poland to launch tanker evaluation

By Arie Egozi

Rumour has it that Poland will Lease the Tankers and then replace with KC-390 when available and acceptable............

Poland will soon evaluate a Boeing 767 converted for use as a tanker/VIP aircraft by the Bedek Aviation division of Israel Aerospace Industries.

The move comes as the nation's air force looks to purchase two inflight refuelling aircraft to support operations with its Lockheed Martin F-16s. The requirement is contained within Warsaw's technical modernisation plan, to be completed by 2013.

The Polish air force will evaluate an aircraft based on the conversion made to a secondhand 767-200ER for the Colombian air force. IAI purchased the used aircraft and Bedek converted it with a hose-and-drogue refuelling system.

Sources expect Poland to also assess Airbus Military's A330 multi-role tanker transport.

IAI has, meanwhile, also briefed Brazilian air force officials about the 767 conversion, despite the service's intention to acquire Embraer's developmental KC-390 design.

[McFriday]

Asians, Europeans Seek Aerial Refuelers

Jul 29, 2011

By Leithen Francis

"SINGAPORE — Boeing’s U.S. Air Force tanker win will, in the immediate term, adversely affect its efforts to sell the KC-46A tanker overseas, leaving the international market wide open for Airbus Military.

Having the U.S. Air Force as a major customer is usually a positive, but in this instance the requirement to design, develop and deliver 18 KC-46A tankers by 2017 means Boeing’s production line in Everett, Wash., will be so busy that there will be no production slots in the near term for overseas customers.

The U.S. Air Force also plans to have follow-on orders until it reaches a total of 179 KC-46As. These will replace its Boeing KC-135 Stratotankers, which first joined the service in the late 1950s.

Boeing declines to disclose an official time frame when the aircraft-maker will have KC-46A delivery slots available for international customers. “Boeing is working with our customers to determine a potential date to deliver a KC-46 tanker for international export in the foreseeable future,” says a Boeing spokesman. However, another Boeing official familiar with the program says the company can deliver to international customers from 2018 onward.

That may be too late for some. Laurent Donnet, the European Defense Agency’s (EDA) project officer for deployability, says the EDA issued a request for information (RFI) to industry in May to present solutions for how European Union member states can alleviate a severe shortfall in refueling tanker capability. Industry has until sometime in August to respond to the RFI, after which the agency will analyze the submissions and formulate an action plan, including pricing and scheduling, that will be presented to member states in November for approval, he says. The aim is to start acquiring the necessary refueling capability in 2012, adds Donnet, who was speaking to delegates at the Military Airlift Asia Pacific conference in Singapore earlier this month.

Donnet says Europe’s previous air-to-air refueling (AAR) initiatives in 2003 and 2005 failed due to a shortage of money and because the initiatives only examined new aircraft. This RFI is different because it seeks a mix of solutions.

Besides acquisition of more refueling tankers, the other possible solutions in the mix may include, for example, better use of existing aerial tankers in Europe’s fleet, buying refueling kits for military transport aircraft and leasing commercial aircraft like the Omega Tanker, Donnet says. “European countries need to cooperate, because they don’t have the money to do it alone,” he says.

The issue is becoming urgent. “Europe’s tanker fleets are getting older and many need to be replaced,” Donnet says. “There is a shortfall, no doubt about it. Existing tankers aren’t even enough to support training.”

Europe has been relying heavily on the U.S. Air Force for AAR, Donnet says, adding the U.S. has made it clear that Europe needs to be more independent, particularly when it comes to AAR. “About 80% of the tanking in Libya is done by the U.S. This is not because the U.S. wants it this way, but because Europe doesn’t have the capability.”

Singapore
In Asia, Singapore is actively working toward finding replacements for its four KC-135Rs. Industry executives say Singapore’s ministry of defense has been speaking to aircraft manufacturers about this. One industry executive says a tender is expected to be issued next year, with a decision likely in early 2013.

An important requirement is that the new tankers will assist the Singapore air force’s Boeing F-15SGs to fly between Singapore and its overseas detachment at Mountain Home AFB, Idaho, industry executives say. Singapore’s air force also has an overseas detachment of Lockheed Martin F-16C/Ds at Luke AFB, Ariz.

Close ties between the Singapore and U.S. air forces would ordinarily mean Boeing would be the frontrunner to win the Singapore contract, but this time around the Airbus Military A330MRTT is the favorite, according to industry executives outside of Airbus Military.

Besides Airbus Military, another possible contender is Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI). Singapore and Israel have close defense ties and IAI’s Bedek Aviation has a program that converts Boeing 767s to tankers.

There is also a competition in India for six tankers, with the A330MRTT and the Ilyushin Il-78 tanker shortlisted, as Boeing has already decided to rule itself out of that competition."

[tiddles]

Some years ago a few Aussie Def Journos were pushing us to consider second hand Airbus A310s as they were cheapish [but out of production] & already converted to carry Cargo. Their fuel offload is not much less than the B767 tanker. This did not happen although Germany & Canada have a few. But this option could be still revisited by the Europeans if they were looking to increase the size of their tanker "fleets"reasonably cheaply.
Tiddles

[Unicorn]

The A310s are getting long on the fang by now.

If I was looking for a small fleet of capable aircraft for conversion, I would be looking at a group of 767-300s (the ER version is still in high demand so not likely to be readily available) or a fleet of A300-600Rs, which are basically 767-300 equivalents.

My choice would probably be for the A300-600Rs as you can pick up a small fleet of sister ships for not too much money and much of the design work on the A310s is very compatible, plus the work can be done in Europe.

Mind you, that would make too much sense, so no one will consider it.

.

[buglerbilly]

There is, in my opinion, a market for 3-6 commercial Tankers on top of what Omega has now (1-2 aircraft, they lost one 707 recently in a fire of course) and I remain amazed that Operators are not actively addressing this.............just the aircarft delivery aspect should support at least 2 aircraft/tankers.

I'd agree tho, the Airbus A300-600R would be my choice, but the Israeli's could do a 767 almost as quickly.

[JimWH]

Seriously guys, whilst most groups discuss opening a bar, we should be discussing opening a commercial tanking business... Or combining the two in some way. Irish themed tanker where everybody knows your name?

[McFriday]

Unicorn, Bug...

Would costs [Running and maintenance] differ a great deal between the Airbus and Boeing examples you used?

I keep tripping over anecdotes that the Boeing 767 is really expensive to run compared to the Airbus, or is this not really a factor?

Cheers,
Mac

PS:
Just saw Jim's post.

Go with a bar of any theme from which to run the tanker business, so long as the snooker table's full sized and not one of those pissant pool tables. Internet access desirable.
Mac

[buglerbilly]

Seriously guys, whilst most groups discuss opening a bar, we should be discussing opening a commercial tanking business... Or combining the two in some way. Irish themed tanker where everybody knows your name?

I've owned and run a bar/bistro for a year a number of years ago.................100+hour weeks and no days off put me right off the idea, sold it for a small profit to a dickhead who thinks he's a restauranter, no telling some poeple altho I hear he's also now sold out.

I'll stick with Commercial Tanking thanks..............

No idea why there would be any major costs difference between A300 and 767 seeing as engines are similar/same and thats where the major running costs lie.

[McFriday]

No idea why there would be any major costs difference between A300 and 767 seeing as engines are similar/same and thats where the major running costs lie.

The latest anecdote I read was in the comedy errr comments section at DOD Buzz this last week, one of the regulars claims to work for a merged US airline and that they were getting rid of all their legacy 767s due to said excessive costs.

I'll try to find the thread.

Cheers,
Mac

[buglerbilly]

Well that's an age problem, we all slow down and become more maintenance intensive as we get older as parts wear out............aircraft of the same age will have similar-same probs im my opinion altho there have been some that wear better.

[buglerbilly]

France Eyes Public-Private Lease for Tanker

By PIERRE TRAN

Published: 29 Sep 2011 12:04

PARIS - The French government is leaning toward a public-private partnership (PPP) lease deal to acquire a fleet of 14 multirole tanker transport (MRTT) aircraft, a Defense Ministry official said Sept. 29.

Talks are being held on the basis of a lease and a traditional purchase, said Hughes Bied-Charreton, director of financial affairs for the secretary-general for the administration.

With a PPP, lease payments would smooth out and help absorb the MRTT acquisition cost, he said.

A decision could be made earlier, but an order would not be made before 2013, which would mean a tight timetable for delivery in 2017, Bied-Charreton said.

The French Air Force is keen to acquire the new aircraft because the fleet of Boeing C-135 FR tankers is about 40 years old.

The tanker acquisition could cost 2.4 billion euros ($3.26 billion), at a unit price of 175 million euros, based on Australian and British purchases of the Airbus A330 MRTT, according to the business magazine Challenges.

The Libya campaign showed that in-flight refueling was a French capability gap because of the age of the fleet, Adm. Edouard Guillaud, the chief of the Defense Staff, told the summer defense university conference.

France has been discussing, as a temporary measure, a pooling of the 14-strong fleet of A330 MRTT jets acquired under lease for the British Royal Air Force's Future Strategic Tanker Aircraft program.

The A330 MRTT is a military conversion of the A330 commercial airliner, which this year lost to Boeing in the U.S. Air Force's KC-X replacement program.

[JKM Mk2]

France is discussing pooling with the British A330 MRTT fleet. Why not just increase the number of aircraft in the fleet (they probably wouldn't need 14 more -maybe 8/10) and turn the FSTA deal into a joint program?

JKM

[buglerbilly]

This may still happen mate..............read this as the French Government going thru the exercise to prove the costs before discussing with the Brits an expansion of the Tanker Fleet.

Tankers, both Maritime and Aviation, were specifically identified as potential Joint Use Assets in the Franco British governmental discussions held earlier this year.